2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Emag]

https://racingnews365.com/toto-wolff-hi ... -f1-change

Interesting from Toto. Could it be McLaren they drop if indeed a customer is dropped?

I would guess Alpine is the primary choice here, because it literally makes no sense why they're even using Mercedes engines to begin with. But who knows, if McLaren continues to be very successful going into the new regulation cycle, Mercedes maybe decides they "have had enough" in 2030 and stop the cooperation.

Toto was asked if Mercedes takes any joy out of the success of MCL and the answer was a pretty clear no; Toto went on to say that HPP only exists for one reason and that is to make Mercedes champions. Also, they might even drop 2 teams if they feel that's what gives them the best balance of feedback and reduced timelines for decision making.

So, if MCL continue to perform better than Mercedes even if they don't win the championship, it could definitely force Toto's hands, but I don't think it would be a big problem for MCL if it were to happen, I think Honda or someone else would do a good enough job replacing Merc.

It's definitely not a good look to be consistently beaten by your customer, but from another perspective, if the main team isn't winning, it's not the worst thing in the world to have the engine on the top spot at least. In any case, if Mercedes is still behind McLaren next year, then they have some bigger problems to take care off until 2030.

As things stand right now, McLaren does not have the capabilities to build a competitive in-house power unit. Which is somewhat weird for a car company, however their automotive business was kind of a niche thing for a long time. McLaren was primarily a racing business. However, the automotive side has seen growth in the last couple of years. In 2024 I think there was a 50% increase in their car sales and probably they have been selling more in 2025 too. I don't know how much of that is driven by the F1 success, but there's been a lot of money from the middle east that was poured into them too. If these growth rates are maintained, then perhaps by 2030 they will be in a position where financing a new division for Engine manufacturing at MTC could be a sensible decision for their automotive business as well.

[bauc]

I would guess Alpine is the primary choice here, because it literally makes no sense why they're even using Mercedes engines to begin with. But who knows, if McLaren continues to be very successful going into the new regulation cycle, Mercedes maybe decides they "have had enough" in 2030 and stop the cooperation.

Toto was asked if Mercedes takes any joy out of the success of MCL and the answer was a pretty clear no; Toto went on to say that HPP only exists for one reason and that is to make Mercedes champions. Also, they might even drop 2 teams if they feel that's what gives them the best balance of feedback and reduced timelines for decision making.

So, if MCL continue to perform better than Mercedes even if they don't win the championship, it could definitely force Toto's hands, but I don't think it would be a big problem for MCL if it were to happen, I think Honda or someone else would do a good enough job replacing Merc.

It's definitely not a good look to be consistently beaten by your customer, but from another perspective, if the main team isn't winning, it's not the worst thing in the world to have the engine on the top spot at least. In any case, if Mercedes is still behind McLaren next year, then they have some bigger problems to take care off until 2030.

As things stand right now, McLaren does not have the capabilities to build a competitive in-house power unit. Which is somewhat weird for a car company, however their automotive business was kind of a niche thing for a long time. McLaren was primarily a racing business. However, the automotive side has seen growth in the last couple of years. In 2024 I think there was a 50% increase in their car sales and probably they have been selling more in 2025 too. I don't know how much of that is driven by the F1 success, but there's been a lot of money from the middle east that was poured into them too. If these growth rates are maintained, then perhaps by 2030 they will be in a position where financing a new division for Engine manufacturing at MTC could be a sensible decision for their automotive business as well.

By 2030 we might see FORD back full time, not like this with RBR where they provide only support ect..... and Zak's is very well connected in USA so we might get a FORD engine or CADILAC if they manage to produce nice piece from 2028 onwards... you never know.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I don't see Mercedes dropping McLaren. Even if McLaren are beating the works team.

I actually think Williams is the most likely team to change supplier and I think they'll end up with an Audi PU in their car, but rebadged as a Porsche or Lambo or other VW prestige brand.

[Ground Effect]

However, as Norris so refreshingly said immediately after Abu Dhabi where he poured so much praise on Oscar and Verstappen, stating that Oscar made him dig deeper than ever before to find performance, it isn’t a long stretch of the imagination to think that with out Oscar Verstappen probably wins his 5th title.

I don't think so, Lando came P2 behind Oscar, what 4 times? 5 if Zandvoort DNF hadn't happened.

I’m not talking about the points they took off each other (confusing because the article posted prior to me is talking about points, so sorry about that)

I mean, Piastri pushed Lando into being a better driver. Incidentally, after I posted my post, I read this on Autosport which explains it well:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/norri ... /10784199/

Yeah, from that perspective, it's a strong possibility. Lando said as much. I think he was actually taken aback by how much Oscar pushed him. Sometimes he seemed shell-shocked.

[billamend]

Toto was asked if Mercedes takes any joy out of the success of MCL and the answer was a pretty clear no; Toto went on to say that HPP only exists for one reason and that is to make Mercedes champions. Also, they might even drop 2 teams if they feel that's what gives them the best balance of feedback and reduced timelines for decision making.

Toto is not a shareholder of the Engine division, and has no say in it. If anything, McL winning makes him look bad.

[mwillems]

Toto was asked if Mercedes takes any joy out of the success of MCL and the answer was a pretty clear no; Toto went on to say that HPP only exists for one reason and that is to make Mercedes champions. Also, they might even drop 2 teams if they feel that's what gives them the best balance of feedback and reduced timelines for decision making.

Toto is not a shareholder of the Engine division, and has no say in it. If anything, McL winning makes him look bad.

You think Mercedes won't listen to him?

He will have a big say, and if Mclaren and Mercedes are rivals fighting for titles in the new era, and Mercedes have the fastest engine, then of course it would be an option to drop Mclaren

[bluechris]

Toto was asked if Mercedes takes any joy out of the success of MCL and the answer was a pretty clear no; Toto went on to say that HPP only exists for one reason and that is to make Mercedes champions. Also, they might even drop 2 teams if they feel that's what gives them the best balance of feedback and reduced timelines for decision making.

Toto is not a shareholder of the Engine division, and has no say in it. If anything, McL winning makes him look bad.

You think Mercedes won't listen to him?

He will have a big say, and if Mclaren and Mercedes are rivals fighting for titles in the new era, and Mercedes have the fastest engine, then of course it would be an option to drop Mclaren

After 5 years of no results and constantly promising things to everyone, especially to the Mama MB, i think he has bigger issues to address especially if 2026 is again a fluke. So at least with McLaren the MB name is advertised.

[mwillems]

If Mclaren are a title rival, thats likely to be a big issue to address.

[bauc]

If Mclaren are a title rival, thats likely to be a big issue to address.

There are a lot of details under the carpet we are not aware of, for one is I think as per the concord agreement an engine manufacturer might be forced to provide engines to a team or something in that nature so for now is all talk and no show.

[Macklaren]

There is ZERO chance that Mercedes will fire McLaren as a customer after the long standing relationship that they have. Also the more options they have to put Merc engines on the podium, the better. It will also ring hollow for Mercedes to win by defanging their opposition. Toto's comments clearly referred to trans like Alpine if they remained at the back of the grid

[mwillems]

If Mclaren are a title rival, thats likely to be a big issue to address.

There are a lot of details under the carpet we are not aware of, for one is I think as per the concord agreement an engine manufacturer might be forced to provide engines to a team or something in that nature so for now is all talk and no show.

I think my point is that if he is saying that they will reduce supply by 1, then we are not a protected species, we also could be the team to be cut.

[the EDGE]

If Mclaren are a title rival, thats likely to be a big issue to address.

There are a lot of details under the carpet we are not aware of, for one is I think as per the concord agreement an engine manufacturer might be forced to provide engines to a team or something in that nature so for now is all talk and no show.

I think my point is that if he is saying that they will reduce supply by 1, then we are not a protected species, we also could be the team to be cut.

Mercedes could well say ‘let’s cut-off McLaren’ if they are being beaten by them, but they could also look at it as McLaren are their benchmark, if they are beating us then we know the issue is with the chassis, not the PU, so let’s keep them

Also, as far as I am aware, McLaren are the only Merc customer that has negotiated a special relationship with them that allows them a seat at the table, with input into the PU’s design, so that must surely signify Merc’s desire to do business with them

[mwillems]

There are a lot of details under the carpet we are not aware of, for one is I think as per the concord agreement an engine manufacturer might be forced to provide engines to a team or something in that nature so for now is all talk and no show.

I think my point is that if he is saying that they will reduce supply by 1, then we are not a protected species, we also could be the team to be cut.

Mercedes could well say ‘let’s cut-off McLaren’ if they are being beaten by them, but they could also look at it as McLaren are their benchmark, if they are beating us then we know the issue is with the chassis, not the PU, so let’s keep them

Also, as far as I am aware, McLaren are the only Merc customer that has negotiated a special relationship with them that allows them a seat at the table, with input into the PU’s design, so that must surely signify Merc’s desire to do business with them

I don’t disagree, but I’ll reiterate that I’m not trying to predict who goes, only that, from the outside, it could be McLaren for all we know.

As others have said, there are all sorts of behind the scenes considerations that drive these decisions, and those factors can easily cut both ways.

If we’re in title fights, then yes, you can see why Mercedes might be tempted to drop us to blunt our challenge a little. On the other hand, that doesn’t really feel like a very “Toto” move. And by the time we get to the end of 2030, Toto may not even be there.

Instead of being devil's advocate, I should have just said: who knows what the F1 landscape will look like by then, trying to say if they will keep us or not is a waste of time, decisions will be made by people and information not currently known for years.

[FittingMechanics]

Cutting off McLaren depends on several things.

1. Mercedes needs to become second best (or the best) - so that cutting of McLaren really gives them a benefit, at the same time McLaren needs to be fighting with Mercedes. If McLaren is winning and Mercedes is in P3 then it would be a stupid move to cut them off.
2. Mercedes customer teams all want to stay (who is to say in the next cycle Alpine or Williams don't want to switch to RBPT/Ford or Audi or Cadillac). Mercedes wants 2 or 3 teams so that they gain benefits of mileage and if Williams or Alpine want to switch that is already done.

[CjC]

A quick look at the early days for Zak at McLaren: