2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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BorisTheBlade
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008, 11:15

Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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Armchair expert simulation/indication of what to expect regarding energy management in China '26 based on telemetry data of the fastest race lap of '25. Trace starts at braking zone to T1 with an empty ES. Map is just for reference.
Image
Key takeaways for me:
  • As the max. 9 KWs can be recovered entirely and in a sustainable fashion from braking and part-throttle recovery alone, we should see next to no super clipping in China.
  • ES capacity is not a limiting factor, as enough can be deployed between each two harvesting zones.
  • Both assumptions can be totally wrong depending on the deployment strategies of the teams. They might want to store quite some energy up to turn 10 to enter the straights-section with the max. 4 KWs. This could lead to super clipping on occasion even if that means giving up recovery potential during part-throttle and braking later on. Not sure if would be worth it laptime-wise (fuel/weight tax).

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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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BorisTheBlade wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:18
Armchair expert simulation/indication of what to expect regarding energy management in China '26 based on telemetry data of the fastest race lap of '25. Trace starts at braking zone to T1 with an empty ES. Map is just for reference.
https://s1.directupload.eu/images/260311/6k5dr2sz.png
Key takeaways for me:
  • As the max. 9 KWs can be recovered entirely and in a sustainable fashion from braking and part-throttle recovery alone, we should see next to no super clipping in China.
  • ES capacity is not a limiting factor, as enough can be deployed between each two harvesting zones.
  • Both assumptions can be totally wrong depending on the deployment strategies of the teams. They might want to store quite some energy up to turn 10 to enter the straights-section with the max. 4 KWs. This could lead to super clipping on occasion even if that means giving up recovery potential during part-throttle and braking later on. Not sure if would be worth it laptime-wise (fuel/weight tax).
This would make for a promising weekend. Do you know what would happen if a driver uses overtake mode on the backstraight? Are they still a sitting duck on the front straight?
Beware of T-Rex

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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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BorisTheBlade wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:18
Armchair expert simulation/indication of what to expect regarding energy management in China '26 based on telemetry data of the fastest race lap of '25. Trace starts at braking zone to T1 with an empty ES. Map is just for reference.
https://s1.directupload.eu/images/260311/6k5dr2sz.png
Key takeaways for me:
  • As the max. 9 KWs can be recovered entirely and in a sustainable fashion from braking and part-throttle recovery alone, we should see next to no super clipping in China.
  • ES capacity is not a limiting factor, as enough can be deployed between each two harvesting zones.
  • Both assumptions can be totally wrong depending on the deployment strategies of the teams. They might want to store quite some energy up to turn 10 to enter the straights-section with the max. 4 KWs. This could lead to super clipping on occasion even if that means giving up recovery potential during part-throttle and braking later on. Not sure if would be worth it laptime-wise (fuel/weight tax).
Nice, appreciate the work.

Two questions :

a) t=90 to t=100 which represent the stretch from the start-finish-line to the T1 braking zone, what's happening to the speed trace with an empty battery ? If it's Vmax at max ICE output frpm t=90 to t=95, why is there a jump in speed from t=95 to t=100 when the braking hasn't started and battery SoC is still 0 ? What am I missing ?

b) t=0 to t=13 is a GIANT ~2300KWs regen window involving braking, LiCo and partial throttle, right ? Since T1-2-3 is a decreasing radius corner, the drivers will not want understeer and will inevitably setup a heavily forwards brake bias, and will revert to a balanced brake bias only when approaching turn3 (where we see a slight throttle spike). Are you sure so much recharging is possible in that state ?

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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I predict that Ferrari will win the sprint race.
Beware of T-Rex

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f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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upsidedowntoast wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:15
f1316 wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 20:59
I have a couple of provocative thoughts about these new cars/races:

(1) a lot of complaints about how awful the qualifying session in Melbourne was because of the LICO and super clipping. I would love to see what the average fan would feel about that session if it had been close. If it’s exciting and the drivers have to make the best use of the tools available to them - even if they involve some “un-F1” elements - how much do we really care? I 100% think this shouldn’t be the formula that F1 has come up with, both is it more interesting in a sporting spectacle than, say, my favourite F1 season in 2004 when they had pretty much “perfect” F1 cars and Michael dominated?
(2) people keep saying that we need graphics and things to tell us what’s going on and how much charge everyone has. I completely disagree. I think F1 was better before we knew exactly how everything was playing out and there was a mystery - what is Prost managing? What fuel strategy is everyone on? I think it keeps it intriguing if you know what’s happening but not always why.

I’m sure people will vehemently disagree but wanted to give my two cents.
1. I think people would still hate the super clipping. Energy starvation is the last thing I want in F1. That said, I thought boost/overtake mode was fun. So I think that what they *should have* done is, for qualifying or a regular lap, no energy starvation at all; bump up fuel flow or something to make the ICE stronger. BUT: keep boost/overtake mode, only limit how much you can store and charge for that -- so you *only* have energy starvation for boost/overtake mode. So there will still be some element of battery management and strategic thinking, but not for qualifying or most of the race.

2. Partial disagree, some graphics are nice. The mystery would sadly lead to frustration from viewers and unfair accusations against drivers. Graphics help separate what's going on with the car vs. the team vs. the driver. Plus they're helpful for newcomers to the sport and people with vision disabilities. That said I suppose with how digital broadcasting is now it shouldn't be *that* hard to let viewers toggle which stats they do or don't want to see onscreen: it would be a fun interactive thing for people who are paying to watch, and maybe they could add this customization in as an extra premium feature for the hardcore fans.
Yeah, definitely see and appreciate these points.

For (1) I just don’t think the majority of people would notice so much if it wasn’t constantly being pointed out to them - I agree conceptually, as I say, and would have designed a very different system if I had my druthers but I just don’t think it’s as big a deal for fans as it is made out to be

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f1316
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 22:04
I predict that Ferrari will win the sprint race.
Why the sprint more than the full, out of interest? Good start and easier to stay in front without pit stops, I presume?

I’m really curious to see the qualifying performance presuming Ferrari can actually optimise (ie avoid the battery issues they had in Melbourne). Fun that it’s a sprint weekend tbh

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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f1316 wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 22:11
AR3-GP wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 22:04
I predict that Ferrari will win the sprint race.
Why the sprint more than the full, out of interest? Good start and easier to stay in front without pit stops, I presume?

I’m really curious to see the qualifying performance presuming Ferrari can actually optimise (ie avoid the battery issues they had in Melbourne). Fun that it’s a sprint weekend tbh
Mercedes struggle to hit the ground running. We saw it in 1st day of Barcelona shakedown, 1st day of Bahrain test, and Friday in Melbourne. They struggled with initial understeer. If the Macarena wing works as intended, Ferrari could lock out the front row and win the sprint before the Mercedes has a chance to get dialed in.
Beware of T-Rex

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BorisTheBlade
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:38
This would make for a promising weekend. Do you know what would happen if a driver uses overtake mode on the backstraight? Are they still a sitting duck on the front straight?
The sim is really rather basic - for example I haven't implemented the sliding scale of deployment depending on speed yet - let alone the whole range of possibilities in deployment that teams have. This is really just for a rough idea. Will try to improve in the coming weeks.
But surely they will need to choose, as in no way they will have enough energy for max. deployment on both straights.

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BorisTheBlade
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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venkyhere wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:45
Nice, appreciate the work.

Two questions :

a) t=90 to t=100 which represent the stretch from the start-finish-line to the T1 braking zone, what's happening to the speed trace with an empty battery ? If it's Vmax at max ICE output frpm t=90 to t=95, why is there a jump in speed from t=95 to t=100 when the braking hasn't started and battery SoC is still 0 ? What am I missing ?

b) t=0 to t=13 is a GIANT ~2300KWs regen window involving braking, LiCo and partial throttle, right ? Since T1-2-3 is a decreasing radius corner, the drivers will not want understeer and will inevitably setup a heavily forwards brake bias, and will revert to a balanced brake bias only when approaching turn3 (where we see a slight throttle spike). Are you sure so much recharging is possible in that state ?
a) This is a stupid logic error I realized 10 minutes ago and fixed already. Thankfully it does not change the numbers, just the trace is a bit skewed.
b) As this is really just basic work, I assume all the braking power up to 350 KW to go into the ES. In reality, a quite large amount of braking power will go into the fronts and harvesting 350 KW might not be possible below let's say 1 MW of total braking power. OTOH braking distance and time will be longer in 26 compared to the reference lap.

aberracus
aberracus
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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BorisTheBlade wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 22:30
AR3-GP wrote:
11 Mar 2026, 21:38
This would make for a promising weekend. Do you know what would happen if a driver uses overtake mode on the backstraight? Are they still a sitting duck on the front straight?
The sim is really rather basic - for example I haven't implemented the sliding scale of deployment depending on speed yet - let alone the whole range of possibilities in deployment that teams have. This is really just for a rough idea. Will try to improve in the coming weeks.
But surely they will need to choose, as in no way they will have enough energy for max. deployment on both straights.
Maybe Mercedes got enough energy to deploy on both, it will surely be a tell.

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: 04 Oct 2017, 03:02

Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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It's sad to see a discussion of a Formula One race devolve into a discussion about electrical energy gathering and distribution. We used to discuss actual racing...... Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but looking through the posts here most of them deal with electrical issues and energy gathering and deployment. F1 has managed, in my opinion, to overly complicate what was an exciting spectacle, 22 extremely fast racing cars going as fast as possible; now we're seeing two gear down shifts on a long straight just to keep the battery happy.

erudite450
erudite450
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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Six seasons in, I still can't get behind the sprint format. I still prefer the traditional three free practice sessions. I hope we get back the 90 minutes FPs but I know that's a pipe dream.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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Rodak wrote:
12 Mar 2026, 01:46
It's sad to see a discussion of a Formula One race devolve into a discussion about electrical energy gathering and distribution. We used to discuss actual racing...... Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but looking through the posts here most of them deal with electrical issues and energy gathering and deployment. F1 has managed, in my opinion, to overly complicate what was an exciting spectacle, 22 extremely fast racing cars going as fast as possible; now we're seeing two gear down shifts on a long straight just to keep the battery happy.
You're not exaggerating.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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erudite450 wrote:
12 Mar 2026, 03:14
Six seasons in, I still can't get behind the sprint format. I still prefer the traditional three free practice sessions. I hope we get back the 90 minutes FPs but I know that's a pipe dream.
I dont even care about getting the extra practices back. I just hate Sprint races. And I just know they're eventually gonna go full MotoGP and eventually have Sprint races at every race weekend. smh

Maybe it'd be slightly more acceptable if we went back to a 17 race calendar or something. With 24 race weekends, we're already heavily watering down the importance and spectacle of(and ability to remember) each individual race.

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FW17
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Re: 2026 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, March 13-15

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Part throttle recovery is just rubbish