2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[Ashwinv16]

We are getting more questions than answers from Race 2
Race1 - The vibrations were nominal (Lance stated the vibration reduced, Alonso stated no change in vibrations)
Race1 - Honda stated that they have solution for the vibrations and same was implemented for the race, was it permanent or temporary measures.
Race2 - Extreme vibration for Alonso, what abt Lance ?
Race2 - No updates from Honda assuming we carry forward the solution from race1

We have more vibration in race2, what changed, did they reduce the fuel limit or increase the PU output

Also, what is the cause of the vibration, is it ICE, MGU or battery..

Driver vibrations never really got solved but they were reduced. Honda's fix was to ensure no vibration on the battery which worked thus the massive improvement on reliability.

Funny situation for Lance, It was not a battery faliures, the steering wheel had a issue so when he pressed overtake button he long pressed or doube pressed it too quickly or soemthing and it and just shut of the mguk by accident probably due to a mistake in the code that deactivates the system. Dont think they are gonne reveal this but again things like this should be solved in testing. but they did'nt get time to do that so i guess we suffer in races.

[Tommy Cookers]

... You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate.....

90 deg 3 pin V6s have 'rocking' 2nd order vibrations (but a fraction of an inline 4's) ....

We have
- 3 pins
- 4 strokes means 720 degrees 720/6 is 120 degrees per piston.
- the 2 piston on each pin need to be 360 degrees apart.
- pin1 0 and 360 ----factor in (90 D V) 0 and 270
- pin2 120 and 480 --factor in (90 D V) 120 and 390
- pin3 240 and 600 --factor in (90 D V) 240 and 510
Fireing order
Cyl Deg Distance since last fire.
C1 - 0 Deg, 210 Deg
C2 - 120 Deg, 120 Deg
C3 - 240 Deg, 120 Deg
C4 - 270 Deg, 30 Deg
C5 - 390 Deg, 120 Deg
C6 - 510 Deg, 120 Deg

That's not the way they'd do it ?

iirc
all V6s have a 240 deg crank
ie it's 240 deg in the direction the engine rotates
(of course in the wrong direction it's 120 deg as in wiki etc)

https://web.archive.org/web/20070502140 ... ngine.html

[diffuser]

I’m not sure how Aston Martin was allowed to race if the car could potentially harm the drivers… hopefully under this outstanding circumstance they are allowed to carry upgrades..

Anyone who's ridden a motorcycle long-distance has probably experienced similar, I wouldn't worry too much about any long-term/permanent impact.
That's not to say it shouldn't be a priority but it will take time, and in the meantime they can keep doing laps with plenty of breaks.

With the MGU-K being positioned the way it is (transferring the ICE vibration much closer to the battery & cockpit) the solution may be a partial redesign of the MGU-K *and* chassis - adding bracing to the 'floating' end of MGU-K, attached to ICE, and adding room for the bracing at the back of the chassis + avoiding any direct contact between MGU-K and survival cell. I wouldn't expect this to be done by the next round.

I'm not confident that going back to Honda's previous MGU-K placement (or similar) would even be possible this season, and that's if the team would even want to do that.

If that was the problem, you'd think they could turn the MGU-K off, test and know for certain that was the problem. Then they try to solve it. Since they haven't come out and said that the MGU-K is the problem, I presume that isn't the issue.

[diffuser]

We are getting more questions than answers from Race 2
Race1 - The vibrations were nominal (Lance stated the vibration reduced, Alonso stated no change in vibrations)
Race1 - Honda stated that they have solution for the vibrations and same was implemented for the race, was it permanent or temporary measures.
Race2 - Extreme vibration for Alonso, what abt Lance ?
Race2 - No updates from Honda assuming we carry forward the solution from race1

We have more vibration in race2, what changed, did they reduce the fuel limit or increase the PU output

Also, what is the cause of the vibration, is it ICE, MGU or battery..

Driver vibrations never really got solved but they were reduced. Honda's fix was to ensure no vibration on the battery which worked thus the massive improvement on reliability.

Funny situation for Lance, It was not a battery faliures, the steering wheel had a issue so when he pressed overtake button he long pressed or doube pressed it too quickly or soemthing and it and just shut of the mguk by accident probably due to a mistake in the code that deactivates the system. Dont think they are gonne reveal this but again things like this should be solved in testing. but they did'nt get time to do that so i guess we suffer in races.

Agreed, Honda never said they were fixing the vibration for the drivers in the first 2 races. Just trying to get through the weekends without breaking batteries.

[diffuser]

If they don't know the cause of the vibration, what makes you think that a complete redesigned of the ICE, would NOT just bring the same result?

Why wouldn't they. They've been testing and analyzing it for a month now, or more.

Remember, Honda claims it doesn't vibrate like this on their full chassis dyno.

With such crippling issues, I doubt they didn't notice any more vibrations than their previous PU compared to their previous design. More like they underestimated the importance, how the effect will be much magnified in a real car.
Perhaps they thought the vibrations are acceptable. Either that or their rig was immune to and/or absorbent of vibrations.

Hopefully they'll reveal it. In the past they were rather open about the issues, once they were fixed.

REDESIGN is not equal to fix problem.
REDESIGN= "NEW DESIGN same problem".
Remember repeating the same action expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
With regards to Honda not having vibrations on their full chassis dyno test, You can make up you own facts, it doesn't change what Honda said.

If you're gonna believe you're own facts. Then just believe AMR26 finished 1st and 2nd in both races and have no problems. Why stop at them having vibrations on their full chassis dyno?

If Honda comes out and says they are having problems, that's a different story. I haven't seen it yet. I'll gladly be corrected.

[diffuser]

ALO said "3-4 months" so we can say until Hungary or after summer break, Netherlands, we wil see only little patches here and there.

I didn't hear Alonso say 3 to 4 months. IMHO until they say "we figured out the cause" we don't know when it will be fix. Once that is said, it will be quickly followed by "and it will take X time to manufacture the fix, expect this fix for ______________" fill the gap. Until then they're just guessing and stringing us along.

[mzso]

Not sure how you think "redesigning" the ICE fixes this. If they don't know WHY it vibratrs, it's gonna happen again. If you don't know what is being done wrong, you can redesign it 50 times, if you don't change the design flaws that are causing the vibration, it will just vibrate again. To change the steps, you must understand the cause. You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate. That can only be done once you know the cause. Once you know the cause, depending on the cause, you correct by changing the design of whatever needs to be changed and redesign all the parts that the redesign causes reprecautions to.

Why are you pushing this silly narrative, that they don't know why it happens? By now they examined the engine/transmission/car/etc every which way possible. They're not retarded. Obviously they won't redesign it blindly without any goal. The problem is they only ran the proper chassis and PU together on their test rig after the Bahrain tests...
There was already a report like two weeks ago that they examined several ideas and one mostly eliminated the excessive vibration. Now they need to implement it.

[mzso]

If it is mechanical vibration they still need mechanical changes on parts that are moving...as far as I can see it, this is not even allowed. So what do they want to change till Japan?

I'm tired of reading this. Reliability updates can always be pushed. There's hardly a clearer reliability issue than this.

Not within the timeframe of Japan. There are clear minimum timeframes to submit the request. Even if they have a fixed engine now on the dyno and it works...it would be a stretch to get the changes approved and the two engines for Miami in time.

As I recall 14 days. And that's only a recommendation, the way it was worded, so it can be somewhat less.

[diffuser]

Not sure how you think "redesigning" the ICE fixes this. If they don't know WHY it vibratrs, it's gonna happen again. If you don't know what is being done wrong, you can redesign it 50 times, if you don't change the design flaws that are causing the vibration, it will just vibrate again. To change the steps, you must understand the cause. You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate. That can only be done once you know the cause. Once you know the cause, depending on the cause, you correct by changing the design of whatever needs to be changed and redesign all the parts that the redesign causes reprecautions to.

Why are you pushing this silly narrative, that they don't know why it happens? By now they examined the engine/transmission/car/etc every which way possible. They're not retarded. Obviously they won't redesign it blindly without any goal. The problem is they only ran the proper chassis and PU together on their test rig after the Bahrain tests...
There was already a report like two weeks ago that they examined several ideas and one mostly eliminated the excessive vibration. Now they need to implement it.

I hope that's true but they've sent mixed signals that they're still investigating.

[Otromundo]

Well, after reviewing all the twists and turns and strange coincidences that have linked Newey's designs with Honda engines (McLaren, Red Bull, and now AMR) over time, where vibration-related problems have always arisen from the start; after racking my brain over all sorts of harmonic issues, even considering the possible relationship between vibrations caused by electromagnetic fields and the potential interrelationships between them; after listening to all the valuable input you've all provided; and after rethinking all of this several times... I'm back to square one.

From the beginning, Honda said it needed more space. I attributed this to cooling requirements or simply as a precaution to ensure those needs were met. But Newey seemed to disagree because he clearly prefers the narrowest and most compact package possible. Both positions seemed normal to me in each case. Although now I have a different opinion.

I suspect that when Honda said "more space," they weren't referring to the bodywork or cooling requirements. They were referring to the chassis dimensions, I imagine. And I also suspect that the engine mounts are simply too small. I suppose Newey prefers less weight, and Honda prefers larger mounts.

I might be wrong because I don't know enough. Although, for me, the above is the only logical explanation for the whole mystery. Because I don't think Honda is incompetent at making engines, and I don't think Newey is an amateur at designing cars. They simply have differing viewpoints on the same issues. And they can't discuss them freely due to simple rules of etiquette, mutual respect, and not divulging confidential information. F1 rules, in short.

[Leon Kennedy]

Well, after reviewing all the twists and turns and strange coincidences that have linked Newey's designs with Honda engines (McLaren, Red Bull, and now AMR) over time, where vibration-related problems have always arisen from the start; after racking my brain over all sorts of harmonic issues, even considering the possible relationship between vibrations caused by electromagnetic fields and the potential interrelationships between them; after listening to all the valuable input you've all provided; and after rethinking all of this several times... I'm back to square one.

From the beginning, Honda said it needed more space. I attributed this to cooling requirements or simply as a precaution to ensure those needs were met. But Newey seemed to disagree because he clearly prefers the narrowest and most compact package possible. Both positions seemed normal to me in each case. Although now I have a different opinion.

I suspect that when Honda said "more space," they weren't referring to the bodywork or cooling requirements. They were referring to the chassis dimensions, I imagine. And I also suspect that the engine mounts are simply too small. I suppose Newey prefers less weight, and Honda prefers larger mounts.

I might be wrong because I don't know enough. Although, for me, the above is the only logical explanation for the whole mystery. Because I don't think Honda is incompetent at making engines, and I don't think Newey is an amateur at designing cars. They simply have differing viewpoints on the same issues. And they can't discuss them freely due to simple rules of etiquette, mutual respect, and not divulging confidential information. F1 rules, in short.

It seems strange to me honestly, Watanabe was saying that Honda was having problems before Newey even started working, we're talking about January 2025. Also because they have already worked together since 2019 and therefore both parties know very well how to work together, we are not talking about two perfect strangers.The truth is that it hurts me too, even though I'm a fan before being an enthusiast, that Honda has worked badly and the interviews where they say that only 30% of the staff of the previous regulatory era are a hard proof of this.Are they at the level of 2015? No, they don't know how to make engines anymore? No. But it's like when a brilliant student, instead of studying 50 pages in a week, studies them in one day at the last moment before the exam. This is my opinion, for goodness sake. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and keep my faith that Japan will solve the problems. Will see

[Otromundo]

Well, after reviewing all the twists and turns and strange coincidences that have linked Newey's designs with Honda engines (McLaren, Red Bull, and now AMR) over time, where vibration-related problems have always arisen from the start ... / ... And they can't discuss them freely due to simple rules of etiquette, mutual respect, and not divulging confidential information. F1 rules, in short.

It seems strange to me honestly, Watanabe was saying that Honda was having problems before Newey even started working, we're talking about January 2025. Also because they have already worked together since 2019 and therefore both parties know very well how to work together, we are not talking about two perfect strangers.The truth is that it hurts me too, even though I'm a fan before being an enthusiast, that Honda has worked badly and the interviews where they say that only 30% of the staff of the previous regulatory era are a hard proof of this.Are they at the level of 2015? No, they don't know how to make engines anymore? No. But it's like when a brilliant student, instead of studying 50 pages in a week, studies them in one day at the last moment before the exam. This is my opinion, for goodness sake. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and keep my faith that Japan will solve the problems. Will see

Yes, it's strange considering they know each other so well. But there are two factors that could have significantly influenced this:

1. Time, or haste, as you prefer. AN has been so meticulous with deadlines since leaving RB, and the team has undergone so many transformations, additions, and new technical equipment that it seems they've been working in too much of a rush.

2. Honda's traditional conservatism, perhaps accentuated by their problems with EVs and the millions in losses they seem to have suffered with their future factory project for their production, which they now appear to have completely abandoned. I think they've covered their bases by warning that "it might not be a quick process." According to my theory, Honda already knew they would have problems with Newey's chassis design.

Now, I think, they're trapped by time, budget constraints and a lack of clarity from the beginning (the latter referring to their statements that explain nothing, leaving us lost and searching for an explanation).

At least they're supposed to have more time now to fix the problem. I suppose they can find a middle ground or simply modify the chassis accordingly.

[V10FURY]

I really don’t expect any improvement in what is happening at Aston-Honda by Japan. That is not enough time to have them even manufacture a temporary fix to get these cars to the end of the race. I think Miami should see a slight uptick in reliability and performance, and then the team will work towards 2027 fully, as this year is a complete bust. Honda only have 11 months to redesign the engine enough to find the missing 50+ horsepower and improve the reliability . That doesn’t seem likely either really based on the current team they have assembled. That’s why I won’t be surprised if the Aston gets an Audi motor for 2028, if Honda are still this far behind in power and reliability. I don’t think Lawrence Stroll will be very patient if things don’t improve dramatically after his home race in Canada.

The only highlight so far this season has been Alonso’s amazing starts . He was up to P9 in the race here before quickly sliding all the way back to last. Perhaps Honda has the smallest turbo solution which helps them get off the line well, but hampers them dramatically on the straights. I hope Honda can turn it around this season and let Alonso fight with Alpine and Haas or even better. He deserves one last epic drive in F1 before he retires. Fingers crossed

[SealTheRealDeal]

Any chance Honda has a spare 2014/15 NSX GT500 chassis sitting around? Honda owns Suzuka so they they could copy Ferrari's 2013 "LMP1H testbed that just so happens to sound exactly like our 2014 F1 car, pure coincidence, trust us", if Sakura's test bench is insufficient to realistically test the engine.

[zoroastar]

ALO said "3-4 months" so we can say until Hungary or after summer break, Netherlands, we wil see only little patches here and there.

Yes, but every time they say different things and you can't understand anything anymore. Even before the pre-season tests I was already disappointed because at the presentation they said "after 7-10-12 races". Now they say 3-4 months, some say in 2027, in short it doesn't mean nothing.


I'm taking what happened to McLaren 2023 as a reference: they said they would solve the problems with the Baku update, well they had no success. Then suddenly in Austria they found 1.5 seconds.


In short, as far as I'm concerned, they don't even know when they'll solve their problems, and Stroll's statements about praying confirm what I think. They could solve all the problems in Japan right now or they could never solve them, that's the reality.

even when the honda guys said that they were going to fix the vibrations in japan, it was with asterisks attached. they always followed with a sentence stating how difficult it was going to be "but they are determined". it was never an absolute. i think if the countermeasures they bring actually work, its still just a starting point of getting performance. like theyve said, when the vibrations are solved, they are still way down on power. i dont expect a lot in japan. i hope im wrong. mclaren in 23 had a great PU. aston in 26 are probably the exact opposite. probably a pretty good chassis and a PU that will take quite a while to be competitive. this sh%t never happens quickly