Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Waz]

The Mclaren v Honda debate, to me (my 2 cents), it really was both parties at fault. McLaren pushed Honda to enter a year earlier than Honda would have preferred, and also with some "hopeful" requests on the engine, but Honda also agreed, to both, with zero experience on these engines.
Also, the design they were pursuing on the first engine was quickly found to be completely off target once they hit the track in the car

They had a full year when they could do virtually anything, while everyone else was prevented from making developments. They didn't make good use of it.
If they only figure out that they're off target when hitting the track then they didn't even bother paying attention to the competition. Which would be weird since McLaren was using the best engine for that year.

That's exactly it, they already knew the target at the start of 2014. They could have legally fitted the engine to a single seater and tested it on track.

Ferrari built a mule car, fitting the engine to a production model.

Again, Honda had a great V6 already. They had a target, and how to achieve it. Yet, they still created a mess.

[BrunoH]

they could have taken a 3 or 4 year old f1 car, make the necessary chassis mods to fit the new engine, had a few goes under a track day experience or whateaver.. but no they did not do ---! you think other engine manufactures dont try some of these things in a test car before? like a year ago? or 6 months ago? of course they did...

[FNTC]

They have changed the battery packaging with the electronics box on top of it and the new large MGU-K on the side of it, so probably cant easily fit it to an older chassis. But if it is possible to modify an old chassis and legal to test the new PU in it, maybe they should consider it. Not sure if it is allowed, or possible physically though.

[diffuser]

they could have taken a 3 or 4 year old f1 car, make the necessary chassis mods to fit the new engine, had a few goes under a track day experience or whateaver.. but no they did not do ---! you think other engine manufactures dont try some of these things in a test car before? like a year ago? or 6 months ago? of course they did...

The regs allow for that. I also believe that the connectivity of the ICE to the monocoque is standardized across teams by the regs....The problem they might have had was gearbox on back. The AMR25 would be allowed but it would have had to be tested with the Honda PU (legal) but the AMR26 rear (not legal).


Not sure how feasible it is to mate the Honda RA626H to a merc gearbox and rear .

[Nbain66]

they could have taken a 3 or 4 year old f1 car, make the necessary chassis mods to fit the new engine, had a few goes under a track day experience or whateaver.. but no they did not do ---! you think other engine manufactures dont try some of these things in a test car before? like a year ago? or 6 months ago? of course they did...

The regs allow for that. I also believe that the connectivity of the ICE to the monocoque is standardized across teams by the regs....The problem they might have had was gearbox on back. The AMR25 would be allowed but it would have had to be tested with the Honda PU (legal) but the AMR26 rear (not legal).


Not sure how feasible it is to mate the Honda RA626H to a merc gearbox and rear .

For the 2014 rule changes Ferrari stuffed their ICE in a road car for testing around Fiorano. That may not provide a lot of useful data on how it functions under real conditions, but Honda/AM could have done more to not be so surprised by this dilemma.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[diffuser]

they could have taken a 3 or 4 year old f1 car, make the necessary chassis mods to fit the new engine, had a few goes under a track day experience or whateaver.. but no they did not do ---! you think other engine manufactures dont try some of these things in a test car before? like a year ago? or 6 months ago? of course they did...

The regs allow for that. I also believe that the connectivity of the ICE to the monocoque is standardized across teams by the regs....The problem they might have had was gearbox on back. The AMR25 would be allowed but it would have had to be tested with the Honda PU (legal) but the AMR26 rear (not legal).


Not sure how feasible it is to mate the Honda RA626H to a merc gearbox and rear .

For the 2014 rule changes Ferrari stuffed their ICE in a road car for testing around Fiorano. That may not provide a lot of useful data on how it functions under real conditions, but Honda/AM could have done more to not be so surprised by this dilemma.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

If you have been making the ICE, gearbox and rear suspension for years.....then teams like Ferrari will have older gearbox and rear suspension that they could mate to the new PU. HONDA did NOT, they used a RBR gearbox and rear suspension in 2025. To add insult, that was all late with AM F1 GP. Even if the chassis was early, mating the new PU with the New rear to the old chassis front would NOT be allowed. If AM F1 GP would have switched to Honda in 2025 and made their own gearbox, then mating the RA626H to last years rear would have been possible.


I think you can add that to the management failure column.

[etusch]

The regs allow for that. I also believe that the connectivity of the ICE to the monocoque is standardized across teams by the regs....The problem they might have had was gearbox on back. The AMR25 would be allowed but it would have had to be tested with the Honda PU (legal) but the AMR26 rear (not legal).


Not sure how feasible it is to mate the Honda RA626H to a merc gearbox and rear .

For the 2014 rule changes Ferrari stuffed their ICE in a road car for testing around Fiorano. That may not provide a lot of useful data on how it functions under real conditions, but Honda/AM could have done more to not be so surprised by this dilemma.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

If you have been making the ICE, gearbox and rear suspension for years.....then teams like Ferrari will have older gearbox and rear suspension that they could mate to the new PU. HONDA did NOT, they used a RBR gearbox and rear suspension in 2025. To add insult, that was all late with AM F1 GP. Even if the chassis was early, mating the new PU with the New rear to the old chassis front would NOT be allowed. If AM F1 GP would have switched to Honda in 2025 and made their own gearbox, then mating the RA626H to last years rear would have been possible.


I think you can add that to the management failure column.

They were first to introduce seamless gb for f1 when they were works team with bar honda. and they were so in motogp too. I think it due to limiting expenses and project structure why they didn't make gb beside pu. Maybe it would be better they make gb too.

[diffuser]

For the 2014 rule changes Ferrari stuffed their ICE in a road car for testing around Fiorano. That may not provide a lot of useful data on how it functions under real conditions, but Honda/AM could have done more to not be so surprised by this dilemma.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

If you have been making the ICE, gearbox and rear suspension for years.....then teams like Ferrari will have older gearbox and rear suspension that they could mate to the new PU. HONDA did NOT, they used a RBR gearbox and rear suspension in 2025. To add insult, that was all late with AM F1 GP. Even if the chassis was early, mating the new PU with the New rear to the old chassis front would NOT be allowed. If AM F1 GP would have switched to Honda in 2025 and made their own gearbox, then mating the RA626H to last years rear would have been possible.


I think you can add that to the management failure column.

They were first to introduce seamless gb for f1 when they were works team with bar honda. and they were so in motogp too. I think it due to limiting expenses and project structure why they didn't make gb beside pu. Maybe it would be better they make gb too.

Think that is an AM choice for 2026 and was by RBR in previous years. As for what Honda did 30 years, it's hardly relevant today. I mean they built arguably the best PU last year and isn't helping this year.

[etusch]

They were first to introduce seamless gb for f1 when they were works team with bar honda. and they were so in motogp too. I think it due to limiting expenses and project structure why they didn't make gb beside pu. Maybe it would be better they make gb too.

Think that is an AM choice for 2026 and was by RBR in previous years. As for what Honda did 30 years, it's hardly relevant today. I mean they built arguably the best PU last year and isn't helping this year.

They did it for the first time and it was good. They are still doing it in motogp. Of course there is improvements there but I don't think so much difference with the gb. And in every case, they are up to date in that area by motogp. And 30 years ago or now, they have more experience compared to AM.

[diffuser]

They were first to introduce seamless gb for f1 when they were works team with bar honda. and they were so in motogp too. I think it due to limiting expenses and project structure why they didn't make gb beside pu. Maybe it would be better they make gb too.

Think that is an AM choice for 2026 and was by RBR in previous years. As for what Honda did 30 years, it's hardly relevant today. I mean they built arguably the best PU last year and isn't helping this year.

They did it for the first time and it was good. They are still doing it in motogp. Of course there is improvements there but I don't think so much difference with the gb. And in every case, they are up to date in that area by motogp. And 30 years ago or now, they have more experience compared to AM.

AM hired the head gb guy from Merc last year. Can't remember his name.

[Honda Porsche fan]

The FIA is going to regulate compression ratio by June 1st, restricting/limiting Mercedes' advantage, which will benefit all non-Mercedes teams.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-c ... /10804160/

[Bence]

No, the FIA will do a literally lukewarm testing methodology change to give people some comfort. If you believe anything will change significantly, well...

[mzso]

The FIA is going to regulate compression ratio by June 1st, restricting/limiting Mercedes' advantage, which will benefit all non-Mercedes teams.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-c ... /10804160/

It's rather old news. But as said, measuring at 130°C is unlikely to change much. If there is a trick other manufacturers are likely trying to create their own right now.

[diffuser]

The FIA is going to regulate compression ratio by June 1st, restricting/limiting Mercedes' advantage, which will benefit all non-Mercedes teams.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-c ... /10804160/

It's rather old news. But as said, measuring at 130°C is unlikely to change much. If there is a trick other manufacturers are likely trying to create their own right now.

Here’s the thing: My understanding of the 130°C test is that 130°C is the coolant temperature at normal operating conditions. If the compression ratio (CR) is tested at that temperature—meaning it can be checked at any point during the race—and the CR is ≤ 16:1, how could they increase it without the sensor detecting it? No matter what they do, the sensor would pick it up.

[Sasha]

Negative

That is what is so great about what MB is doing just like they understood the new rules better than all the rest in 2014.

All that is known now is the fact the MB is over 16-1 CR and that is only because an ex-MB Employee told his new team that they are.
He legally can't say how.