2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[mzso]

Not necessarily. There were designs that had rather good power density. If they got some proper development attention they would be even better. It a tech that can be improved iteratively. Always making the active materials thinner, the structural parts lighter, etc.
I think 1/6 race distance (probably even better) is pretty much doable below 800kg at the current state of technology. Using the best cells, and recovering as much as possible

The volumetric density of hydrogen is absolutely awful and makes it a complete non starter for F1. Even if you were to use liquid hydrogen, you would still need a fuel tank volume ~3x that of petrol, and then you're dealing with cryogenic fuel which brings with it another host of problems. Maybe if you used pure liquid deuterium you would have a starting point. Hydrogen fuel cells might one day might find a niche in long distance trucks or military vehicles but I doubt we'll see them outside of that.

I'm not suggesting hydrogen! Never will. I agree that it sucks. Fuel cells for more practical fuels would be needed. Like Solid-Oxide fuel cells with some alcohol, or alkane.

[Cold Fussion]

If you're not using hydrogen you're not really getting much benefit out of a fuel cell for F1 imo. The F1 engines are already have over 50% TE which is very much in the lower range of methane fuel cells. I would be surprised to learn that the power densities could compare with an F1 PU as well.

[diffuser]

SSBs have been "expected" for ages, issues constantly come up. We just had that Donut Labs hoax which is typical of the battery industry.

And even if you can create a battery with nominally high energy density it will create other issues that makes it impractical for F1. Battery chemistry is not magic, it's a compromise between forces that are working against each other. So when you need ultra-high density, high discharge rate, limited cooling, rapid cycling, and a decent lifespan, you are asking for a unicorn product with zero compromises that may never exist, nevermind a few years from now.

“You know, it doesn’t matter what you and I say today—we’ll know in two or three years. I understand that some breakthrough ideas fall apart when people try to scale them up for production, but a large part of the world is fed up with having to pay for oil and gas. There are alternatives, and there is a huge amount of investment, with even bigger rewards for those who succeed.”

Are you quoting yourself now?

These batteries you speak of are not a reality yet, it's vaporware. In two or three years they will need another two or three years to make it to market. I remember when Chat-GPT launched and the story was "two or three years until artificial general intelligence". People in these hyped up industries always oversell the speed of development and adoption even if the long term impact of the tech may be huge. It's part of the game, it's part of how you raise money, all the investors need that FOMO to part ways with their dollars.

F1 shouldn't be the guinea pig for this. Let Formula E do the Mickey Mouse racing where it's all energy management until the final laps and you can't race on the big boy circuits. If and only if the technology becomes genuinely viable for F1's demands should they consider adoption, we're nowhere close in reality.

I said around the corner, niche 2027,2028 and then larger scale 2030.

They've been shipping phones with solid state batteries for a couple of years now. It's not the major brands like Samsung or Apple, who run higher costs if there is a major recall. There are several of the know Chinese brands that have.

That is F1, one big Guinea pig. Has been for 100 years.

[Cold Fussion]

They've been shipping phones with solid state batteries for a couple of years now. It's not the major brands like Samsung or Apple, who run higher costs if there is a major recall. There are several of the know Chinese brands that have.

Which phones have solid state batteries?

[diffuser]

They've been shipping phones with solid state batteries for a couple of years now. It's not the major brands like Samsung or Apple, who run higher costs if there is a major recall. There are several of the know Chinese brands that have.

Which phones have solid state batteries?

Oops, I meant to write silicon carbide.