2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

[zibby43]

As a follow-up to your edit, why should the most powerful ICE (RBPT) be given ADUO but not the best energy recovery (Merc, apparently)? What is the logic there?

And I’m fine with solution 5. In fact, I prefer it above all else.

Because ADUO should be implemented for the entire PU including the Hybrid. Otherwise why should there be a measurement process for the ICE which grants additional development items for the Hybrid system. That is what the current system does. So the Mercedes class leading hybrid system is now allowed to get further ahead, while Red Bull are actually blocked from improving their hybrid system until 2028 according to the regulations, simply because of the ICE rating. This has no logic.

https://i.postimg.cc/ryvg39xb/image.png


https://i.postimg.cc/fRWdr3qm/image.png

You can see now that this is not a PU catchup mechanism like Toto Wolff requested. This scheme will allow Mercedes to increase their PU margin.

There would be no logic granting the team with the best ICE further development either, according to your methodology.

I think we have some middle ground on the notion of open development for all but I think we enter the realm of assumptions when we say “X manufacturer has the best overall PU.” All these claims are coming from journalists or drivers. The same ones who say things like Ferrari have the best chassis. What would RB look like on the straights without an overweight pig of a car with terrible aero efficiency?

Clearly, the RBPT ICE is most powerful per the FIA’s measurement so kudos to them for topping Mercedes and Ferrari out of the gate.

I’m now going to red flag myself and suggest that any further ADUO discussion be confined to a thread narrowly tailored for the topic, as to not take this one any further off topic.

[AR3-GP]

I agree. I think the FIA has more insight than I do so maybe there's something I missed. Maybe everyone will be close next year. Let's trust the process.

[zibby43]

My understanding is that the electric side is not frozen. So as it stands, everyone can make changes between seasons as long as they stick to the cap. IMHO, it is extremely unlikely that the peak capability of anyone's hybrid system is that far ahead of anyone else from a hardware perspective. This is mature technology that has been raced in F1 and beyond for years.

The difference is likely coming from perfecting harvesting and deployment maps. This is software. It can constantly be updated by any team. Hence the focus on ICE for ADUO and why I do trust the FIA and am willing to see how this pans out.

If the hybrid element is reduced in favor of the ICE in 2027, I imagine RBPT will stand the most to gain.

[erudite450]

I guess Toto was right after all when he said that RBPT built the best PU.

[SB15]

I guess Toto was right after all when he said that RBPT built the best PU.

Only in the power department... my understanding is that Mercedes probably knew this and purposely underpowered their engine just to be granted this 2%. But that's my opinion.

[AR3-GP]

I guess Toto was right after all when he said that RBPT built the best PU.

Only in the power department... my understanding is that Mercedes probably knew this and purposely underpowered their engine just to be granted this 2%. But that's my opinion.

No they wouldn't do that. Wolff said that gamesmanship has no place here. I actually think the initial rumors of Petronas not having a great fuel could be the reason. They probably did have a higher power level but the original fuel specification didnt meet the sustainability criteria. Merc didn’t have the fuel approval until race week in Melbourne.

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff has admitted he fears rival teams could try and use "gamesmanship" to take advantage of the new engine rule.

Speaking to media including Crash.net on 20 April, Wolff said: "The principle of ADUO was to allow teams that were on the back foot in terms of the power unit to catch up, but not to leapfrog.

"And it needs to be very clear that whatever decisions are being made, whichever team is granted ADUO, that any such decision may have a big impact on the performance picture and on the championship, if not done with absolute precision and clarity and transparency.

"It needs to be clear that gamesmanship hasn't got any place here, but it needs to be with the right spirit here that the FIA acts upon an ADUO.

"The teams will have their performance pictures and, as it seems for me, there's one engine manufacturer that has a problem and we need to help. And then all the others are pretty much in the same ballpark.

"I would be very surprised, actually, and disappointed if ADUO decisions that were done would come up with any interferences into the competitive pecking order as it stands at the moment."

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Who else thinks that Kimi doing so well means Max coming to Merc is getting less and less likely. Plus with all the uncertainty around whether he'll even stay in the sport for much longer...Mercedes doesn't need Max any more!!

[Lasssept]

[.poz]

Considering how things typically play out in F1, my personal opinion is that the AUDO at Mercedes is tied to an agreement regarding the removal of the system that enables an increase in the compression ratio. It is also possible that, without the increased compression ratio, the performance of the Mercedes power unit is genuinely lower than that of Red Bull.

[Sevach]

I guess Toto was right after all when he said that RBPT built the best PU.

Only in the power department... my understanding is that Mercedes probably knew this and purposely underpowered their engine just to be granted this 2%. But that's my opinion.

I have wondered about this before, if they are playing it safe with this engine.
How many horses they have parked? Unless Red Bull or Ferrari can start winning they have no reason to unleash.

That's what happens when you make such complex system, teams are gaming it.
It's not just Mercedes, Ferrari also isn't eager to change it's aero exhaust and get more power or their small turbo.
They wanted ADUO from lower power to catchup and have everything.

Should've made something just like the aero allowance.

[gearboxtrouble]

Considering how things typically play out in F1, my personal opinion is that the AUDO at Mercedes is tied to an agreement regarding the removal of the system that enables an increase in the compression ratio. It is also possible that, without the increased compression ratio, the performance of the Mercedes power unit is genuinely lower than that of Red Bull.

I’m leaning towards this as well. Barcelona should provide a clear signal for the post CR test change performance of the Mercedes PU.

[Gillian]

My understanding is that the electric side is not frozen. So as it stands, everyone can make changes between seasons as long as they stick to the cap. IMHO, it is extremely unlikely that the peak capability of anyone's hybrid system is that far ahead of anyone else from a hardware perspective. This is mature technology that has been raced in F1 and beyond for years.

The difference is likely coming from perfecting harvesting and deployment maps. This is software. It can constantly be updated by any team. Hence the focus on ICE for ADUO and why I do trust the FIA and am willing to see how this pans out.

If the hybrid element is reduced in favor of the ICE in 2027, I imagine RBPT will stand the most to gain.

Thank you very much, very informative. Makes sense then that ADUO only pertains ICE.

I do wonder how Mercedes ICE is weaker than RB Ford. Do we know if the measurements are based of the CR updated ICE?

[SB15]

My understanding is that the electric side is not frozen. So as it stands, everyone can make changes between seasons as long as they stick to the cap. IMHO, it is extremely unlikely that the peak capability of anyone's hybrid system is that far ahead of anyone else from a hardware perspective. This is mature technology that has been raced in F1 and beyond for years.

The difference is likely coming from perfecting harvesting and deployment maps. This is software. It can constantly be updated by any team. Hence the focus on ICE for ADUO and why I do trust the FIA and am willing to see how this pans out.

If the hybrid element is reduced in favor of the ICE in 2027, I imagine RBPT will stand the most to gain.

Thank you very much, very informative. Makes sense then that ADUO only pertains ICE.

I do wonder how Mercedes ICE is weaker than RB Ford. Do we know if the measurements are based of the CR updated ICE?

Well crazy as this sounds, power isn't everything.

[SilviuAgo]

Kimi was brilliant during Monaco GP and deserved the win. But was George affected by Mercedes decisions?

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Kimi was brilliant during Monaco GP and deserved the win. But was George affected by Mercedes decisions?

George was ABSOLUTELY affected by Mercedes decisions, or in the case of the race yesterday, errors.