Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
I can't see any f1 team entered into next years championship wanting to buy Toyota's chassis IP without knowing how far dvanced teh design is.
USF1
manor
Campos
all have their own car designs already since they have or are being crash tested at this time.
Buying someones else cars now is a waste of resources.
Fundamental to buying the chassis and aero IP is the understanding of the concepts behind that design and that is often not documented. They will need the engineers to whom that IP is attached.
Raptor22 wrote:I can't see any f1 team entered into next years championship wanting to buy Toyota's chassis IP without knowing how far dvanced teh design is.
USF1
manor
Campos
all have their own car designs already since they have or are being crash tested at this time.
Buying someones else cars now is a waste of resources.
Fundamental to buying the chassis and aero IP is the understanding of the concepts behind that design and that is often not documented. They will need the engineers to whom that IP is attached.
Unless it nets you another concept like the DDD, in which case may just jump you to the front of the grid...
Raptor22 wrote:Fundamental to buying the chassis and aero IP is the understanding of the concepts behind that design and that is often not documented. They will need the engineers to whom that IP is attached.
the same engineers that are now looking for work..?
ever heard of reverse-engineering?
wonder why McLaren & Renault were so happy to get Ferrari IP back in SpyGate..
they didn't have engineers come across with the dossiers, yet found the risk worthy of taking.
With Toyota, you'd be acquiring it legitimately, and getting it all.
Any post(s) made by this user are (semi-)educated opinion(s), based on random fact(s) blurred by the smudges of time.
Any fact(s) claimed by this user will be supplemented by a link to the original source of said fact(s).
If I were Toyota, and had to deal with severence pay for my contracted engineers, I may be inclined to let the IP go if the purchasing team picks up enough engineers to reduce the shut-down cost of the team.
Trying to sell the IP for 50MEUR with no personell would be unrealistic, but if the "purchasing" team agrees to hire 20 specific engineers, it may net Toyota that cost in savings...
I am really interested in seeing how this turns out, and what Toyota's asking price is. Their 2009 car wasn't that bad, and if the 2010 car was designed to build on those strengths, and has synergized the parts that were lacking, putting a Cosworth in the back may just make it a front runner for 2010...
I would like to see USF1 pick it up, but then again, I would do alot of things differently if I were running a team. Oh well.
And while all this was going on I got a call at some point from a little bird in Cologne who told me that the staff of Toyota have been told that their entry has been sold on to someone else – and that some of them are going to be asked to stay on to build and run their car for a man called Stefan from Serbia. Apparently the government down there is paying for “Stefan Grand Prix” to become a reality.
Conceptual wrote:So, maybe they get "Tech Support" with the IP.
Phone a call centre in Bombay.........
If you are unable to run your car - Press #1
If you already have a Toyota IP and wish to upgrade to a McLaren IP - Press #2
For all other queries or a conversation with Mike Coughlan & Nigel Stepney - Press #3
Or hold to speak to an operator
And while all this was going on I got a call at some point from a little bird in Cologne who told me that the staff of Toyota have been told that their entry has been sold on to someone else – and that some of them are going to be asked to stay on to build and run their car for a man called Stefan from Serbia. Apparently the government down there is paying for “Stefan Grand Prix” to become a reality.
It's not "a man called Stefan from Serbia", it's Zoran Stefanovic. Until now, everything I read about Stefan GP seemed a good joke, maybe it won't be funny anymore (mainly for a guy named Peter, whose last name starts with an "S" and ends with an "R" and has "aube" in the middle)?
Now, IF Stefan GP bought Toyota's design, there may be a Mike Coughlan-penned F1 project available for USF1...
According to AMuS StefanGP is to use the Toyota 2010 design and has Pascal Vasselon to finish the design and build of the new car. They are hiring in Germany and it is believed that the a group of 150 remaining Toyota F1 engineers including Vasselon are now working for StefanGP.
Other reports in Germany indicate that the Toyota group could be leased to StefanGP by Toyota and some may be transferred to Serbia at a later time. A report on Pitpass said that Nigel Stepney is supposed to do design work for Stefan. To me it looks more likely that Stephanivic has done a deal to let a Toyota core team prepare the car and run it for racing and testing. Perhaps next years project will see a switch to Serbian based resources. At the moment any 2010 campaign can only rely on ex Toyota resources in terms of personnel, factory and equipment.
Plan A is obviously to wait for Campos or USF1 to fail in the run up to Bahrain. STGP want to be ready to step in and take the slot on the grid if that happens. Bernie has apparently encouraged them to continue on that approach.
PLan B would be using the 2010 season to test and develop the car by that. Not being a signatory to the Concord STGP would not be hit by testing restrictions.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
not the worst approach in my opinion...if they get in the Toyota is surely a top 10
car,if they don´t get an entry they will have a full season to prepare properly and who would bet on all current team to survive 2010?
also who prevents one of the teams to aquire or look into test results stemming from those tests outside the concorde agreement?
Would it be possible to forge a partnership like we already see in say FI and Mclaren ,but with at this time only one team participating in the series?
Could place some excess staff there as well for free instead of buying the results
of the tests..
Question would be of course will they be allocated tyres by Bridgestone,and if not what to do then?
Could be a major investment making your own tyres...
Id recon that theh have a sure fire plan. And i think that ther could be at least one team that dosnt have the facility to make it for 2010. Im taking them seriously, to a point. Id say that if they do make it, whats the best Toyota think about prepair engines for the team for a single season.
And if Vasselon is finishing the design, that was rumored to have passed its 2010 crash tests just the day before Toyota pulled out, they will have a quality design.
Toyota should have done the thing that Renault had done for 2010, sold their team, or 75% of it on to a investor for 2010. This way they would have avoided the embarrasment. BUT... The thing about the Toyota facility that is less attractive to others than say Renault at Einstone is the fact they have the engine facility attached to the chassis facility. Thats the reason that Einstone as a facility is more promising, you can interface any engine with what chassis your producing there.
And theres the eventual problem, the potential investor will have to build a new facility and transport staff there and equiptment, whitch is costly.
Altho, Lotus has already rumored to have taken 150 of the staff, handpicked by Mike Gascogyne is a given. Seemingly he has taken the best of their design team, wind tunnel and CFD staff and chassis building staff. And since Toyota are retaining another 150 of the remaining best, out of the 550 that worked at Cologne, that only leaves 250 staff that can be taken by Stefan GP, whitch could less. Rumors are that many of the UK national staff that have worked for Toyota F1 have or are going to relocate back to the UK now to get a job with either Virgin or any of the UK based teams that need staff who have left to go to Virgin. Posibly leaves arround 100 staff that SGP will be left with.
I admire the tanasity of SGP, but seriously think that its gonna be a little pie in the sky as i think after the EU complaint, the FIA will look to another team to step in, most posibly Lola.
marcush. wrote:Question would be of course will they be allocated tyres by Bridgestone,and if not what to do then?
Could be a major investment making your own tyres...
Rememeber BS said they are done after 2010, so what they need to do is find whatever company is interested in supplying F1 in 2011 and offer their services for tire testing, maybe Kuhmo or whoever people say want to bring tires in 2011
marcush. wrote:Question would be of course will they be allocated tyres by Bridgestone,and if not what to do then?
Could be a major investment making your own tyres...
Rememeber BS said they are done after 2010, so what they need to do is find whatever company is interested in supplying F1 in 2011 and offer their services for tire testing, maybe Kuhmo or whoever people say want to bring tires in 2011
Im seeing where you come from ISLAMATRON. Could it be Bridgestone doing some brinksmanship to get a deal thats better comercially for them???
he´s claiming to have the car ready for testing and budget secured for doing so ,engine ,drivers all in place only tyre contract is the only missing bit.
they seem to hope to get a 14th spot for 2010 still ,but would be prepared to do just testing next year....this seems to leapfrog almost allnewcomes instantly...so even if they will not face Stefan GP on track in 2010 in 2011 surely.
STP has stopped the EU complaint against the FIA in September.
They want to be recognized as a 14th team like Sauber (a bit unrealistic given USF1 stance on the issue IMO)
They claim to have a car ready for testing
They claim money is no issue, they have all the finance lined up for 2010 and 2011 regardless of when a chance opens
Serbian government supports the STP project
Mike Coughlan still works for STP and many others
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
What kind of obligations do the new teams have? What happens if (suddenly!) a certain team doesn't turn up in Bahrain? What could they face then?
I'm just wondering at what point a man called Stefan from Serbia would know if there is a 13th slot available again.
