Mercedes W17

[SilviuAgo]

I'm seeing reports on alleged problems with the legality of the diffuser on this car? But nothing here which is quite curious.


Is it just gossip/hype/misinformation?

The FIA is reportedly set to ban Mercedes’ diffuser extensions through a Technical Directive (TD).

The clarification could be issued before Austria, though Mercedes are reportedly pushing for a delay.

This comes after Ferrari challenged the interpretation, arguing it opened the door to even more extreme diffuser concepts.


Details here: https://autoracer.it/diffusore-mercedes ... battaglia/

[djones]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

[SilviuAgo]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

I don't know if the time is the most important aspect for Mercedes to make the development. Some say that the rear end stability is improved by the solution and this allow Mercedes to use better the tires. Interesting that FIA main goal seems to be "to ban innovation".

[organic]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

I don't know if the time is the most important aspect for Mercedes to make the development. Some say that the rear end stability is improved by the solution and this allow Mercedes to use better the tires. Interesting that FIA main goal seems to be "to ban innovation".

It's more that there was previously a reason that they prevented Ferrari developing a similar solution and the same logic may not have been applied.

When Ferrari appealed to the FIA, they did not simply say 'ah but there is X&Y difference between your ideas in pre-season and what Mercedes have brought'. That's telling imo

I believe that current situation is that fia has set Austrian GP as deadline for removal. And Mercedes are pushing for the deadline to be Silverstone

[zibby43]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

That projection on convergence (no idea how you're calculating that to begin with but open to reading more) kind of assumes that Mercedes will stop developing the car and Ferrari will have zero issues with their new PU spec.

[Badger]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

That projection on convergence (no idea how you're calculating that to begin with but open to reading more) kind of assumes that Mercedes will stop developing the car and Ferrari will have zero issues with their new PU spec.

But taking upgrades off the car will speed up any convergence. The diffuser is a key area of the car and this exploit is meaningful judging by the pictures.

[zibby43]

I wonder how much that diffuser ban is worth in time.

It's quite interesting that Ferrari are bringing upgrades (that seem to work well) including a better engine this weekend and at the same time Mercedes are having speed increasing items removed like the compression testing and now the diffuser. At this rate they will likely converge in about 6 races time.

That projection on convergence (no idea how you're calculating that to begin with but open to reading more) kind of assumes that Mercedes will stop developing the car and Ferrari will have zero issues with their new PU spec.

But taking upgrades off the car will speed up any convergence. The diffuser is a key area of the car and this exploit is meaningful judging by the pictures.

We don't know if/when it's coming off the car. If Silverstone, Mercedes may already have a variant that surpasses this iteration from a performance perspective by then. Also, quite a few folks Mercedes' power advantage was going to whither away after the supposedly magic compression ratio bullet was nerfed. Nothing really happened so that talking point just went away.

Next, I may need to calibrate my eyeball CFD to be able to discern lap time from pictures.

Lastly, folks thought Ferrari's new wheels were a significant performance differentiator in terms of tire degradation in Barcelona but they still had comparatively worse deg than Merc. Point being, how visually dramatic something is can be misleading.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... -the-rims/

I do agree that the diffuser design "has" to be worth something - whether it's lap time or car behavior - or else it wouldn't be on the car to begin with.

[Badger]

That projection on convergence (no idea how you're calculating that to begin with but open to reading more) kind of assumes that Mercedes will stop developing the car and Ferrari will have zero issues with their new PU spec.

But taking upgrades off the car will speed up any convergence. The diffuser is a key area of the car and this exploit is meaningful judging by the pictures.

We don't know if/when it's coming off the car. If Silverstone, Mercedes may already have a variant that surpasses this iteration from performance.

Next, I may need to calibrate my eyeball CFD to be able to discern laptime from pictures.

They didn't put it there because it makes the car slower. The TD will obviously ban any shenanigans in this area hence it will be hard to replicate the performance without a more fundamental redesign of the diffuser, which is very $$ and time consuming.

[zibby43]

But taking upgrades off the car will speed up any convergence. The diffuser is a key area of the car and this exploit is meaningful judging by the pictures.

We don't know if/when it's coming off the car. If Silverstone, Mercedes may already have a variant that surpasses this iteration from performance.

Next, I may need to calibrate my eyeball CFD to be able to discern laptime from pictures.

They didn't put it there because it makes the car slower. The TD will obviously ban any shenanigans in this area hence it will be hard to replicate the performance without a more fundamental redesign of the diffuser, which is very $$ and time consuming.

I edited my post for additional information but I do agree - nothing goes on the car that doesn't help performance. My point is it's impossible to quantify laptime from eye-balling a part and saying, "Oh, that looks dramatic. Must be worth 2 tenths." Some upgrades contribute marginal gains as part of a larger package or improve a handling/behavioral characteristic of the car.