This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
McLaren had like 9 drivers and 8 constructor championships to its name Aston Martin (including predecessors) has 0.
The latest drivers' title was only 2-3 years before the negotiations occurred.
Yes but they didn’t have a PU did they? They couldn't stay with Merc, unless they gave up their car business. So basically Honda had them over a barrel. Plus at that time the Honda name in F1 was golden, it hadn't been tarnished by the poor starts of 2015 and 2026.
I don't know anything about the car business. AFAIK Ron Dennis wanted to be a factory team. And apparently Honda eagerly wanted to return.
Merc told McLaren to get rid of their car business or stop being supplied PUs from Merc. Honda was NOT EAGER, in fact they didn't want to start until 2016 or 2017 cause they weren't ready but McLaren were DESPERATE for a PU from someone.
Just ran into a Race video that touched on Alonso getting screwed by trying such games with Ferrari and ending up being replaced with Vettel. (Also toxic PR).
I would be surprised if Honda paying for Alonso was ever seriously considered with their history.
if aston thought alonso wasnt going to re-sign theyd be scrambling to get somebody by now. newey just keeps saying "im pretty sure we can get him to stay" like hes delaying, but has very little doubt. i imagine that hes already given them some assurance that he plans on staying and theyre just waiting to announce any details. probably until the Spain race in a couple of weeks.
They do not have to scramble at all. Tsunoda is pretty much on call for them, not to mention they got the likes of Jak Crawford allowing Stroll to lead the team and honestly Sergio Perez will switch if he is called. However it's very obvious Alonso will stay
Pretty certain TSU is under contract with RBR for 2026. Crawford is a guy that you can bring in for a race. He's not a guy you gonna expect to drive you car for 1 year.
has anybody noticed that as soon as alonso goes to any team the page numbers for that team in here go up and up? even when aston were doing awful for 3 years straight theres a certain contingancy that are going to follow. there was a boost when honda joined too, and newey of course. what im trying to say is tsunoda, drugovich or crawford aint alonso. not on the track, nor in the sponsors eyes. if you think that aston arent worried of losing alonso, because they can easily scoop up crawford or tsunoda even, youre out of touch. alonso, leclerc, max and hamilton are A tier and tsunoda, albon are B tier.. jak crawford is C tier in the ratings. aston and all their sponsors want to have an A tier driver. especially until they can get this project up and moving.
some things that can tell you when a driver isnt A-tier are: 1 you are thoroughly dominated by any teammate. 2 you have been subsequently "let go" by the team afterwords. 3 the general fact that people find it unlikely that youll ever win a championship, whether its because you wont get into a top team, or because of the high likelyhood that your teammate will beat you if you do.
has anybody noticed that as soon as alonso goes to any team the page numbers for that team in here go up and up? even when aston were doing awful for 3 years straight theres a certain contingancy that are going to follow. there was a boost when honda joined too, and newey of course. what im trying to say is tsunoda, drugovich or crawford aint alonso. not on the track, nor in the sponsors eyes. if you think that aston arent worried of losing alonso, because they can easily scoop up crawford or tsunoda even, youre out of touch. alonso, leclerc, max and hamilton are A tier and tsunoda, albon are B tier.. jak crawford is C tier in the ratings. aston and all their sponsors want to have an A tier driver. especially until they can get this project up and moving.
some things that can tell you when a driver isnt A-tier are: 1 you are thoroughly dominated by any teammate. 2 you have been subsequently "let go" by the team afterwords. 3 the general fact that people find it unlikely that youll ever win a championship, whether its because you wont get into a top team, or because of the high likelyhood that your teammate will beat you if you do.
Alonso was nothing special against Ocon .being paired against an unmotivated Stroll is faltering him ,he was making notable mistakes last year. He is still good but not 2012 good ,if he was in the best car and fighting against the like of Max and Charles i think he will have a tough time especially over one lap. Aston are in the rebuilding process they can afford not to have a top driver
has anybody noticed that as soon as alonso goes to any team the page numbers for that team in here go up and up? even when aston were doing awful for 3 years straight theres a certain contingancy that are going to follow. there was a boost when honda joined too, and newey of course. what im trying to say is tsunoda, drugovich or crawford aint alonso. not on the track, nor in the sponsors eyes. if you think that aston arent worried of losing alonso, because they can easily scoop up crawford or tsunoda even, youre out of touch. alonso, leclerc, max and hamilton are A tier and tsunoda, albon are B tier.. jak crawford is C tier in the ratings. aston and all their sponsors want to have an A tier driver. especially until they can get this project up and moving.
some things that can tell you when a driver isnt A-tier are: 1 you are thoroughly dominated by any teammate. 2 you have been subsequently "let go" by the team afterwords. 3 the general fact that people find it unlikely that youll ever win a championship, whether its because you wont get into a top team, or because of the high likelyhood that your teammate will beat you if you do.
Alonso was nothing special against Ocon .being paired against an unmotivated Stroll is faltering him ,he was making notable mistakes last year. He is still good but not 2012 good ,if he was in the best car and fighting against the like of Max and Charles i think he will have a tough time especially over one lap. Aston are in the rebuilding process they can afford not to have a top driver
Put Fred in a championship contending car and I'd imagine you would see the 2012 man again. But I'm not confident Aston (really, Honda) can accomplish that by 2028, unfortunately. Hope to be wrong.
Alonso was nothing special against Ocon .being paired against an unmotivated Stroll is faltering him ,he was making notable mistakes last year. He is still good but not 2012 good ,if he was in the best car and fighting against the like of Max and Charles i think he will have a tough time especially over one lap. Aston are in the rebuilding process they can afford not to have a top driver
If the comparison is Max in his prime, and equalish cars, almost anybody might struggle in a comparison. LeClerc, I dont know if its that clear cut. Qualifying yes, but Id bet on Alonso over a full season if all other things are equal. His first year at Alpine, it was after 2 years being out of F1. It took him half a season to get upto speed after driving all sorts of categories. In the second season, Alonso had significantly worse reliability which coincided with races where Alpine was competitive for points. Its hard to outperform your teammate significantly with that Alpine on a track like Monza because your car is at such a disadvantage compared to others. Also, Ocon had made it his mission to only race Alonso at a certain point even causing and risking collisions in multiple races. I thought he was fairly comfortably better than Ocon, especially in races.
We are seeing Max also flounder when the car is not competitive. I think Alonso would do well in a better car. Both from a motivation stand point (as we've seen since upgrades) and also maximizing his skill set which is racecraft.
honda goal is to have the best pu by mid season next year, i think they will met that target having done it before.a very good Newey car maynot even need the best engine so we shall see how aston drivers perform soon.
I think Honda's power deficit is exaggerated. This was visible in their battle with Williams. I say this considering that, roughly speaking, the ICEs have 600 hp, and even if we say Honda is 10% behind, that's still 60 hp. And the power difference might be in the ICE. On the electric side, it's not a power difference, but an efficiency difference. Even if they brought in the 20 hp with new spec, there's only a 40 hp difference. Moreover, these are exaggerated, rough estimates. So we don't know spec2 power gain, power difference in the ice can not be higher then 60 even at the start of the season.
In conclusion, they are definitely behind, and the goal is to be the best if you are in a race, so you wouldn't even want to be at the same level. But after their second new spec, you should expect the difference to be such that it can't be fixed with the chassis.
However, I think Honda has some issues with top speed compared to others, even with the same power. Of course, I'm saying this based on series like WTCC, not F1, so it might not be relevant to our topic at all.
I think Honda's power deficit is exaggerated. This was visible in their battle with Williams. I say this considering that, roughly speaking, the ICEs have 600 hp, and even if we say Honda is 10% behind, that's still 60 hp. And the power difference might be in the ICE. On the electric side, it's not a power difference, but an efficiency difference. Even if they brought in the 20 hp with new spec, there's only a 40 hp difference. Moreover, these are exaggerated, rough estimates. So we don't know spec2 power gain, power difference in the ice can not be higher then 60 even at the start of the season.
In conclusion, they are definitely behind, and the goal is to be the best if you are in a race, so you wouldn't even want to be at the same level. But after their second new spec, you should expect the difference to be such that it can't be fixed with the chassis.
However, I think Honda has some issues with top speed compared to others, even with the same power. Of course, I'm saying this based on series like WTCC, not F1, so it might not be relevant to our topic at all.
They have issue with the drivability which is severely masking the progress done on Spec 2, they required close to 4 to 5 races for Spec 1 PU to optimize the drivability, they need to up their game and sort out the driveability by next race
I think Honda's power deficit is exaggerated. This was visible in their battle with Williams. I say this considering that, roughly speaking, the ICEs have 600 hp, and even if we say Honda is 10% behind, that's still 60 hp. And the power difference might be in the ICE. On the electric side, it's not a power difference, but an efficiency difference. Even if they brought in the 20 hp with new spec, there's only a 40 hp difference. Moreover, these are exaggerated, rough estimates. So we don't know spec2 power gain, power difference in the ice can not be higher then 60 even at the start of the season.
In conclusion, they are definitely behind, and the goal is to be the best if you are in a race, so you wouldn't even want to be at the same level. But after their second new spec, you should expect the difference to be such that it can't be fixed with the chassis.
However, I think Honda has some issues with top speed compared to others, even with the same power. Of course, I'm saying this based on series like WTCC, not F1, so it might not be relevant to our topic at all.
They have issue with the drivability which is severely masking the progress done on Spec 2, they required close to 4 to 5 races for Spec 1 PU to optimize the drivability, they need to up their game and sort out the driveability by next race
That's a pretty positive view on something that's being masking. The drivability is masking, what it's masking (good, bad or ugly) is unknown. We all hope it's good.
I think Honda's power deficit is exaggerated. This was visible in their battle with Williams. I say this considering that, roughly speaking, the ICEs have 600 hp, and even if we say Honda is 10% behind, that's still 60 hp. And the power difference might be in the ICE. On the electric side, it's not a power difference, but an efficiency difference. Even if they brought in the 20 hp with new spec, there's only a 40 hp difference. Moreover, these are exaggerated, rough estimates. So we don't know spec2 power gain, power difference in the ice can not be higher then 60 even at the start of the season.
In conclusion, they are definitely behind, and the goal is to be the best if you are in a race, so you wouldn't even want to be at the same level. But after their second new spec, you should expect the difference to be such that it can't be fixed with the chassis.
However, I think Honda has some issues with top speed compared to others, even with the same power. Of course, I'm saying this based on series like WTCC, not F1, so it might not be relevant to our topic at all.
I kind of agree with this. My interpretation of what etusch is saying is that the electrical side can make a large part of the gap we've been seeing as a power deficit.
has anybody noticed that as soon as alonso goes to any team the page numbers for that team in here go up and up? even when aston were doing awful for 3 years straight theres a certain contingancy that are going to follow. there was a boost when honda joined too, and newey of course. what im trying to say is tsunoda, drugovich or crawford aint alonso. not on the track, nor in the sponsors eyes. if you think that aston arent worried of losing alonso, because they can easily scoop up crawford or tsunoda even, youre out of touch. alonso, leclerc, max and hamilton are A tier and tsunoda, albon are B tier.. jak crawford is C tier in the ratings. aston and all their sponsors want to have an A tier driver. especially until they can get this project up and moving.
some things that can tell you when a driver isnt A-tier are: 1 you are thoroughly dominated by any teammate. 2 you have been subsequently "let go" by the team afterwords. 3 the general fact that people find it unlikely that youll ever win a championship, whether its because you wont get into a top team, or because of the high likelyhood that your teammate will beat you if you do.
Alonso was nothing special against Ocon .being paired against an unmotivated Stroll is faltering him ,he was making notable mistakes last year. He is still good but not 2012 good ,if he was in the best car and fighting against the like of Max and Charles i think he will have a tough time especially over one lap. Aston are in the rebuilding process they can afford not to have a top driver
50% the car was brake down under Alonso ,or something technical issues.
