2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[collindsilva]

“Based on our roadmap, we’ll take a big step forward for the first race. It’s hard to say if we’ll be able to make up the entire gap by then, but we’re working towards it.” - Orihara

If they could close more than half the gap by the first race in 2027, that would be a big win in my book.

https://www-sport-es.translate.goog/es/ ... r_pto=wapp

It is just Bla Bla and opposite in reality.
Seems fans are losing trust in Honda, it will be now or never for 2027

[diffuser]

During yesterday's press release it was mentioned that the drivability had improved, Any thoughts on this.
Also have they been able to use the full 30HP upgrade on the spec 2 or still at 10HP.

I read from one source that the HP gain was only 18-19. No one truly knows what the upgrade was worth.

Drivability did look better at Monza.

what about the battery and recharge issue, Honda seem to be lagging in this area also, if Honda does not fix these things they will be in the same situation with the 2027 engine, spending 3 to 4 races fixing the drivability.

First 3 or 4 races in 2027 are testing days in Bahrain.

[Tommy Cookers]

at high speed the rear axle grip allows total (friction + generating) rear braking power of over 1000 kW
(because DF is high and also a given braking power requires less tyre grip at high speed than at low speed)
but whenever rear tyre grip allows over 350 kW total braking we are failing to recover energy that has cost us fuel
this is why the max 2026 aero DF has been made less than the 2014-2025 rules gave

​... Since the engine is off, the high-downforce aero profile is active, and the MGU-K is pulling 350 kW of resistance, the car experiences strong, natural deceleration (coasting drag).
​When the driver finally steps on the brake pedal a few split-seconds later, the Brake-by-Wire (BBW) system simply adds hydraulic disc pressure ......

It will always come down to the efficiency of the downforce. If 2 cars have the same drag and car A has double the df, it will not slow down any faster than car B. DF if a force perpendicular to the rear wheels.

imo ....
no car has 'double the aero DF but the same drag'

if there was such a car it could brake harder but that (as I said) would reduce the energy recovered during braking ...
so needing more coasting time to recover more energy then

the aero DF is rather proportional to drag - and the amount of DF chosen via aero design, development, and testing

[diffuser]

There are report that Aston Martin want Honda to pay part of Alonso salary and increase contribution to AMR budget.
This may be the reason why the contract is delayed. May guess is that Honda will likely reject this request because Honda itself is under
going tremendous pressure from its EV restructuring. If Honda is paying for driver, they would rather put a Japanese in the team instead,

There might a performance requirement in the Honda contract that Honda has not met, that is triggering that conversation. Honda may not have a choice.

[TyreSlip]

“Based on our roadmap, we’ll take a big step forward for the first race. It’s hard to say if we’ll be able to make up the entire gap by then, but we’re working towards it.” - Orihara

If they could close more than half the gap by the first race in 2027, that would be a big win in my book.

https://www-sport-es.translate.goog/es/ ... r_pto=wapp

It is just Bla Bla and opposite in reality.
Seems fans are losing trust in Honda, it will be now or never for 2027

We will see then. I will keep faith that Orihara is not sugar coating the situation and Honda will make a big jump to start 2027.

[etusch]

According to FIA's measurements, the ICE produced by Red Bull is more powerful than Mercedes'. Considering this is a reliable dyno test result...

Mercedes, and especially Antonelli, could have opened up a shocking gap even to Russell if they hadn't started from the back of the grid. Even other Mercedes-powered cars were far from the performance of the factory Mercedes...

If FIA is right, Mercedes is really in a very good position in terms of the regeneration and to use this power.

[mzso]

at high speed the rear axle grip allows total (friction + generating) rear braking power of over 1000 kW
(because DF is high and also a given braking power requires less tyre grip at high speed than at low speed)

but whenever rear tyre grip allows over 350 kW total braking we are failing to recover some energy that has cost us fuel
this is why the max 2026 aero DF has been made less than the 2014-2025 rules gave

But you also below 350 kW braking power that much earlier. So this is not near as clear cut you'd have us believe.

[mzso]

That's a strong statement... The FIA has been kissing Ferrari's butt for like 40 years.

Ferrari used to be that team. What happened with the start procedure this season was a farce, Ferrari specifically designed their engine for better starts compromising top end performance. And of course, since Mercedes didnt like it, FIA changed it immediately. The fact that they qualified for ADUO is a farce.

No-one besides Ferrari liked it, and it did bring some safety issues. If you recall, the almost big crash was between a slow Lawson a Mercedes powered Colapinto.
Ferrari should have vetoed it if they didn't like it. Or argue that if a team cannot demonstrate a competitive start they should start from the pitlane.

The ADUO measurement was defective from the get go. It has nothing to do with favoring Mercedes.

[Petebass]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

[etusch]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

Let's look at how Honda, with previous PU formula, suddenly reached Mercedes' level, or perhaps even surpassed it at one point. They realized that the engine produced very good torque at some RPM range and had very fast ignition, and they figured out how to utilize it. However, even with an increase in the amount of E10 fuel used, there were performance losses. Or maybe it's just my perception.
Now they haven't quite figured out how to work with this fuel. Therefore, this is where they need to improve, where they should focus, and performance gain could happen instantly or it could take a very long time. But this last race, in particular, showed that everyone except Mercedes needs to work hard on the electric side as well.

[KimiRai]

It is said Krack and Orihara hugged each other after the Sunday press conference. A bit of team spirit

[diffuser]

According to FIA's measurements, the ICE produced by Red Bull is more powerful than Mercedes'. Considering this is a reliable dyno test result...

Mercedes, and especially Antonelli, could have opened up a shocking gap even to Russell if they hadn't started from the back of the grid. Even other Mercedes-powered cars were far from the performance of the factory Mercedes...

If FIA is right, Mercedes is really in a very good position in terms of the regeneration and to use this power.

Not taking away anything from Antonelli, but the 2 starts and the VSC worked in his favour. Also, nobody outside of the top 7 even wanted to engage with him. Hamilton even got out of his way so he wouldn't waste tire wear battling with him.

They don't use Dyno to test the power, they have torque sensors on all the teams ICEs and MGU-Ks.

[diffuser]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

Let's look at how Honda, with previous PU formula, suddenly reached Mercedes' level, or perhaps even surpassed it at one point. They realized that the engine produced very good torque at some RPM range and had very fast ignition, and they figured out how to utilize it. However, even with an increase in the amount of E10 fuel used, there were performance losses. Or maybe it's just my perception.
Now they haven't quite figured out how to work with this fuel. Therefore, this is where they need to improve, where they should focus, and performance gain could happen instantly or it could take a very long time. But this last race, in particular, showed that everyone except Mercedes needs to work hard on the electric side as well.

It does.

After Alonso past Perez, the engineer asked him to change MAPs to a "battery recharge Map", Race mode 8 I believe. This is new. The engineer said something like "to Recharge the battery now we should change to Race mode 8 for this lap". So yes there is visible progress on Honda's side. Also the off throttle switch to full recharge was working much smoother from where I was.

[diffuser]

There must be some fundamental problems with the concept and architecture of the 2026 engine that are preventing both normal operation and further development.

I think that after the winter testing, Honda basically started creating and developing the 2027 engine almost from zero, and that they have only used one ADUO upgrade this year, mainly related to combustion, as a test bed. I think we'll find out about this during the 2026 winter break.

I don't think they'll be fully prepared for 2027 either, because the other manufacturers will also improve, while Honda will almost be starting from the start. Perhaps by mid-2027 they could be in a position where they're only around 15 hp behind, at which point they could at least fight, but even that would be an optimistic scenario.

I don't think that, after constantly improving essentially the same V6 bottom end since 2017, there was much more they could have improved going into 2026.

The rule change fundamentally affected combustion. The outlawing of cylinder-pressure sensors, the radical change in fuel, the 16:1 maximum compression ratio, and the reduced fuel flow all effectively erased many of the combustion-side advantages that Honda and the other manufacturers had been developing prior to 2026.

The 2026 regulations were a major reset of the combustion side of the ICE, rather than simply another evolution of the existing V6.

The FIA did change where the MGU-K connects to the crankshaft. but I still see the combustion being where all the gains will come from on the ICE side.

[diffuser]

at high speed the rear axle grip allows total (friction + generating) rear braking power of over 1000 kW
(because DF is high and also a given braking power requires less tyre grip at high speed than at low speed)

but whenever rear tyre grip allows over 350 kW total braking we are failing to recover some energy that has cost us fuel
this is why the max 2026 aero DF has been made less than the 2014-2025 rules gave

But you also below 350 kW braking power that much earlier. So this is not near as clear cut you'd have us believe.

Right, Tommy has a knack of making me think about things ....

Presumably, if you have more DF, you'll continue to have more DF at lower speeds, thereby increasing the amount of recharge kW available at lower speeds. If you have less DF, you'll have to curtail the amount of recharge kW earlier.