Mercedes GP MGP W01

[RacingManiac]

For what its worth they are the only team with a real board to answer to....

[doopie2you]

Lately i have been reading on several f1 news sites about people saying that Mercedes GP will not become World Champion in either Construction or Driver Championship.

But every time i read those articles it is followed by an article called:
Brawn:Don't write Mercedes off yet.

So my question is, does Ross know something we don't know? Do they show up with a 2009 car wichs is a second quicker or something? Or does he just try to keep everybody at Mercedes positive??

I think Mercedes aint going to become Champion this year

[WhiteBlue]

I was not aware that Mercedes GP are currently running under NEXT YEARS resource restriction rules.
Less Manpower will obviously have an adverse effect in getting updates ready especially as big as the one mooted for Barcelona.

We would all like a source on the claim that MGP are running under next years RRA rules. I can't see a team of that level tying one arm behind their back.

There are plenty of quotes by Ross Brawn to that effect. http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/for ... ss-brawn1/ In this one he mentioned an employment level of 450 in January 2010.

At the same time Domenicali quoted 850 team members for Ferrari. I don't have the primary source but our member donscar quoted from GP.com. viewtopic.php?p=140616#p140616

In the same thread we found evidence that the head count cap will probably be 350 in 2011 and 280 in 2012. The amount of bought in external work is limited to 20 mil $ but that is also being reduced on a sliding scale. So nobody knows exactly which figure will apply when.

[Ganxxta]

Don't write Mercedes off yet.

So my question is, does Ross know something we don't know?

Sure he does
But if its true that they will introduce a B-Spec car in Barcelona as romoured then they still can win some races...

[hecti]

If they do have a b-spec car coming then i think it was planned like that all along.

[adam2007]

I was not aware that Mercedes GP are currently running under NEXT YEARS resource restriction rules.
Less Manpower will obviously have an adverse effect in getting updates ready especially as big as the one mooted for Barcelona.

We would all like a source on the claim that MGP are running under next years RRA rules. I can't see a team of that level tying one arm behind their back.

There are plenty of quotes by Ross Brawn to that effect. http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/for ... ss-brawn1/ In this one he mentioned an employment level of 450 in January 2010.

At the same time Domenicali quoted 850 team members for Ferrari. I don't have the primary source but our member donscar quoted from GP.com. viewtopic.php?p=140616#p140616

In the same thread we found evidence that the head count cap will probably be 350 in 2011 and 280 in 2012. The amount of bought in external work is limited to 20 mil $ but that is also being reduced on a sliding scale. So nobody knows exactly which figure will apply when.

If you dont have the source please do not post as you may be telling it wrong thank you

[WhiteBlue]

We would all like a source on the claim that MGP are running under next years RRA rules. I can't see a team of that level tying one arm behind their back.

There are plenty of quotes by Ross Brawn to that effect. http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/for ... ss-brawn1/ In this one he mentioned an employment level of 450 in January 2010.

At the same time Domenicali quoted 850 team members for Ferrari. I don't have the primary source but our member donscar quoted from GP.com. viewtopic.php?p=140616#p140616

In the same thread we found evidence that the head count cap will probably be 350 in 2011 and 280 in 2012. The amount of bought in external work is limited to 20 mil $ but that is also being reduced on a sliding scale. So nobody knows exactly which figure will apply when.

If you dont have the source please do not post as you may be telling it wrong thank you

Please care to read the first source I gave you for the Merc head count. You are extremely rude to let other people do the leg work for you and then reject their effort. The references for the 2011 head count cap are also in the thread I gave you with the second source. For the lazy folks who can't read I give them once again explicitly.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/155792/1/w ... mpaign=rss source for 280 cap in 2012

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 87290.html source for 350 cap in 2011

[ESPImperium]

Firstly, can this be merged with the W01 main thread???

Secondly, i do belive that Mercedes will come up with a new chassis at Barcelona, for the reason of "relyability" and or "Saftey" issues. More or less to the same way that Virgin have a new chassis coming for their larger fuel tank, but that is semingly not as big as maybe is to be belived.

The thing is that if they do, you can put in a F-Duct, but id not expect that from them. Maybes a lighter chassis, and one with some charicteristic changes to the current three (W01-01, W01-02 and W01-03) chassis that are in existance.

[Pierce89]

I was not aware that Mercedes GP are currently running under NEXT YEARS resource restriction rules.
Less Manpower will obviously have an adverse effect in getting updates ready especially as big as the one mooted for Barcelona.

We would all like a source on the claim that MGP are running under next years RRA rules. I can't see a team of that level tying one arm behind their back.

There are plenty of quotes by Ross Brawn to that effect. http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/for ... ss-brawn1/ In this one he mentioned an employment level of 450 in January 2010.

At the same time Domenicali quoted 850 team members for Ferrari. I don't have the primary source but our member donscar quoted from GP.com. viewtopic.php?p=140616#p140616

In the same thread we found evidence that the head count cap will probably be 350 in 2011 and 280 in 2012. The amount of bought in external work is limited to 20 mil $ but that is also being reduced on a sliding scale. So nobody knows exactly which figure will apply when.

Regardless 450 is not 350 or 280. So MGP is not running under next years RRA rules, and the team went to 450 last year(as BGP) because Brawn couldn't afford 700 heads.http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74128Nick Fry mentions it when asked if they can push for the championship.

[marcush.]

Firstly, can this be merged with the W01 main thread???

Secondly, i do belive that Mercedes will come up with a new chassis at Barcelona, for the reason of "relyability" and or "Saftey" issues. More or less to the same way that Virgin have a new chassis coming for their larger fuel tank, but that is semingly not as big as maybe is to be belived.

The thing is that if they do, you can put in a F-Duct, but id not expect that from them. Maybes a lighter chassis, and one with some charicteristic changes to the current three (W01-01, W01-02 and W01-03) chassis that are in existance.

I doubt this would be allowed ...on which grounds and just why should they?
last years mac was the slowest car at the beginning of the year seconds away from being competitive.the Merc is not top but surely not a bad car justifying a new tub..
and of course a f-duct would never be allowed to be incorporated.

[ringo]

Is new chassis really needed? Remember the engine and transmission are load bearing structures.
Everything basically hangs off these parts. All virgin will do is move the engine and gear box back. I don't know what they will fit between it to make more space, but the floor and other body panels just have to be elongated then hung off the load bearing structures and that's it. Wheels and wing ect. will follow suit with the gearbox, no major adjustment.

I am not sure about how exactly load bearing parts are fitted to the tub, but the tub itself may be ok as long as some means of putting space between it and the engine is used. Maybe an adaption plate or something?

I want to see what Merc will do to change their car. I suspect wheel base changes will be the most drastic. There may be little tricks they can use to get away with not changing the tub.

[marcush.]

Is new chassis really needed? Remember the engine and transmission are load bearing structures.
Everything basically hangs off these parts. All virgin will do is move the engine and gear box back. I don't know what they will fit between it to make more space, but the floor and other body panels just have to be elongated then hung off the load bearing structures and that's it. Wheels and wing ect. will follow suit with the gearbox, no major adjustment.

I am not sure about how exactly load bearing parts are fitted to the tub, but the tub itself may be ok as long as some means of putting space between it and the engine is used. Maybe an adaption plate or something?

I want to see what Merc will do to change their car. I suspect wheel base changes will be the most drastic. There may be little tricks they can use to get away with not changing the tub.

as stated before ..moving ballast is far more effective for moving CG longitudinally than elongating wb.you could of course do a lot by changing layout of the wishbones in front with no impact on the tub itself.

As Merc is talking about too much weight at the rear (!) things get a bit more complicated if you need to shift weight forward the simple wishbone thing has limitations in angularity of driveshafts ,this affecting reliability of cv7tripod joints and differential output bearings..so maybe they need a new gearbox casing to move the rear tyres back.

funny enough ..it could have been from the beginning that Merc was too much rear biased overworking the rears and for the matter having difficulty to make the fronts work (underworking of the tyres) If you don´t have much ballast to play with it is difficult to improve the situation ..and of course as you try to push you will only overheat the rears sending you in a loss loss situation altogether ,
fronts not working because of low temp low grip rears no grip because of low grip high temps..the end result maybe even a car which is balanced...but on a lower than optimum level..as front and rear are not working at peak performance ...push more and the rears go ,push less and the fronts loose even more..

[Timstr]

The W01 has too much weight to the front, not the back.

The jest of the AMuS article is that Mercedes do not have that much ballast to move to the rear. E.g. MMC uprights have been banned as of this year, making the cars heavier and it's become much more difficult to shed weight for the benefit of tuning ballast. By dragging the front axle forward, a relatve weight shift to the back is achieved.
However, I think AMuS wrongly concluded that new crash tests would be required. The rules simply do not allow it. Virgin is a different situation.

[WhiteBlue]

We would all like a source on the claim that MGP are running under next years RRA rules. I can't see a team of that level tying one arm behind their back.

There are plenty of quotes by Ross Brawn to that effect. http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/for ... ss-brawn1/ In this one he mentioned an employment level of 450 in January 2010.

At the same time Domenicali quoted 850 team members for Ferrari. I don't have the primary source but our member donscar quoted from GP.com. viewtopic.php?p=140616#p140616

In the same thread we found evidence that the head count cap will probably be 350 in 2011 and 280 in 2012. The amount of bought in external work is limited to 20 mil $ but that is also being reduced on a sliding scale. So nobody knows exactly which figure will apply when.

Regardless 450 is not 350 or 280. So MGP is not running under next years RRA rules, and the team went to 450 last year(as BGP) because Brawn couldn't afford 700 heads.http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74128Nick Fry mentions it when asked if they can push for the championship.

I think it's a bit nit picking to point to a deviation of 100 heads when Ferrari or McLaren have an excess of 500. Just add the word substantially and the statement is true. If you compete with an opponent who has almost twice your resources wouldn't you say that you compete with one arm tied behind your back?

[adam2007]

Lads im sure they can fix the problem they spends thousands of hours in laboratories and they have top people with degrees and nerds working like crazy to sort it, i hope by spain they are competitive