No champagne for Kimi and JPM

[RacingManiac]

I thought they were supposed to be pomegranate juice or soda of somesort....

[wowf1]

I couldn't agree more with what Dave Killens wrote about respecting another country's culture and way of life if you're residing there. However, it seems that in the UK, this (seemingly logical) philosophy doesn't really exist.

The government are heavily committed to changing the society to suit immigrants and foreign settlers, rather than encouraging these settlers to accept the British way of life.

I find it strange that when the west visits the middle-east, we (and I) have no problem conforming to that country's culture. But when it's the other way round, western governments have no problem bending over backwards to suit the middle-eastern countries.

Slightly off-topic, and I hope I don't cause offence. But as a citizen in the UK, that's how I feel.

[manchild]

Shame Manchild, flying is such fun. I wa sonce in a helicopter over the Rockies in British Columbia, and we suddenly had the fuel being discharged from the tanks. Quickly running out of gas over the mountains.. now that's fun.

I like aircrafts a lot and know a lot about them but I’m afraid of flying

I'd rather sit in some small Cessna and try to take it up myself than be a package with no influence on flight in commercial airliner (I like flight simulations )

[manchild]

Yeah, respecting local customs is ok if you're visiting but F1 didn't need Bahrain but Bahrain needed F1. So, if they wanted F1 they should have taken whole package as it is and as it should be instead of modifying it according to their religious dogmas.

We can't just think of tradition and customs of hosting countries but on tradition of grand prix racing too. If the champagne is part of this tradition including pitababes or so than "religious sensitive" countries should be a bit caring for feelings of the people from the parts of the world from where the grand prix racing origins.

[mcdenife]

That Bahrain needs F1 more than vice versa is wrong. F1 needs Bahrain as much as Bahrain needs F1 even more so as F1 attempts to be a trully global sport and hence needs to appeal to as many people as possible. Regardless of what obtains in the uk or elsewhere or the gripes of people with regards to to their local culture/political climate, F1 should, does and always has respected the culture of the many different culture it operates in. To do otherwise would be wrong. Both parties make concessions or compromises but it is unreasonable to expect a culture to change just because F1 is coming to town. A begger DOES have a choice: they can take it or leave it and that applies to both Bahrain and F1. If F1 did not need Bahrain, they would not be there.

[manchild]

Ok, but let us suppose that in the near future a driver or any other team member becomes some citizen of Israel. What should we do than? Not say a word and leave him behind because the hosts of F1 in Bahrain are not allowing citizens of Israel to come in their country for political-religious reasons?

Such attitude has nothing to do with local customs or tradition that should be respected. That isn’t a part of those mentioned heritage things but disrespect for human rights and multi-cultural and cosmopolitan nature of formula 1. Why must we suck up to those who don’t agree with basic postulates of equality among people, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and other freedoms?

[mcdenife]

Rightly or wrongly, it still has to do with the present political climate and is therefore up to F1 and Bahrain to find a compromise. Multi-culturalism means respecting and coexisting other cultures whether you agree with it or not. F1 politics is one thing. F1 getting involved in politics (international or otherwise) is quite another.

[Scuderia_Russ]

[
I like aircrafts a lot and know a lot about them but I’m afraid of flying

It's not the flying you should be worried about... it's the crashing. Hope this helps.

[ackzsel]

It's not the flying you should be worried about... it's the crashing. Hope this helps.

Well, It's not even the crashing, but the horrible and fatal injuries caused by the accident. Maybe THIS helps.

[Ciro Pabón]

This is so totally NO F-1 Technical, but...

For one thing: champagne is fruit juice.

Another one: you do not have to "respect" other cultures. Bahrain can have an ancient culture, like every country in the world, but those guys had a dictator since 1973, when the emir Salman dissolved the parliament. Women did not have voting rights until 2002. Of course, in 2002 no women were elected. This country has a religious legislative chamber, or Shura, which is far off the mark in respect with my standards on separation of church and state. Why should I respect that?

What you have to do is to treat people equally, irrelevant of their culture, and to try hard to put yourself in your neighboor shoes before critizicing him. This has nothing to do with respect. You respect people, not nationalities or ideological positions.

Finally: I would not be so incensed about Bahrain prohibiting Israelis from entering the country. There have been several cases of athletes with rejected visas for no apparent reason, when trying to compete in USA and Europe.

[acer]

wowf1....if you think that way...which means you don't respect the country's culture if you go to Saudi for example....it is an Islamic country...so no alchohol in Islamic country's

[f1.redbaron]

wowf1....if you think that way...which means you don't respect the country's culture if you go to Saudi for example....it is an Islamic country...so no alchohol in Islamic country's

I don't want to get into politics, but I would like to say this - acer, re-read his reply. You will notice that he isn't trying to offend you (or Islam, or anybody). He's just saying how he would like to see a "two-way street" when it comes to certain - shall we say - rules in society.

[phantomfocus]

Sorry to stray a bit off topic, but I noticed that the side of the Mcalrens had the "Keep Walking" instead of the Johnny Walker, but what confused me was that the driver suits still had Johnny Walker on them and not "Keep Walking". I always thought the teams had to do a complete switch on the logos. Similar to Honda or Ferrari. (I know those are examples tobacco and Johnny Walker is alcohol)

[Ciro Pabón]

wowf1....if you think that way...which means you don't respect the country's culture if you go to Saudi for example....it is an Islamic country...so no alchohol in Islamic country's

Well, I am sorry. I went a little over the edge. Maybe it is my anarchist soul... Actually, acer, it is only that I meant to differentiate respect for people and respect for laws. I use this forum sparsely and mainly to learn from their members, so for the first time, I'll rant a little:

You have to abide by the laws, but the essence of your freedom rests in your ability to fight for the reform of laws you do not agree with. There is a difference between moral (mores=customs) and ethics (ethos=behaviour). You could say that is immoral to use a mini-skirt, but I could point that this is certainly good ethics...

It seems ridiculous to me to say that champagne celebration in F-1 (a clear cultural symbol, part of Western culture) it is less valuable than alcohol prohibition (another clear cultural trait). The absence of fighting for this F-1 tradition, could be interpreted as the frightened stance of Europe about what Islam could really mean.

Anyway, please forget anything you could find offensive in my commentary. I really like good manners.

That is why "Bahrain and fruit juice" shocks me: they are not good hosts, if they make a punctillious point of something as irrelevant to inebriation as "bathing in champagne", which is clearly only a symbolic tradition that you could trace to the Olympic games of the Greeks. Good manners start with good humour, I think.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Wasn't it Dan Gurney who started the act of spraying champagne in a spontaneous act of wanting to share his victory with the crowd? I think it was Gurney anyway. To be honest I don't see what the big deal is. If no-one knew that it was fizzy fruit juice you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.