No champagne for Kimi and JPM

[manchild]

... If no-one knew that it was fizzy fruit juice you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

If it is so irellevant than why Bahrain officials insist on that?

As I worte before many journalists who visited Bahrain GP testified that alchocol drinks can be bought all around the Bahrain in many bars, restaurants... If it is so than Bahrain officials are hypocrite for banning traditional F1 champagne celebration since they play obedient muslims only on TV while off-air thay enjoy alchocol too as the rest of Bahrain population.

Bernie is just soft on money and ready to trun F1 into whatever it takes to get more of it. As I said it before - if Bahrainis don't like champagne spraying and pitbabes than they shouldn't have taken F1 at all because no one was forcing them to get F1. Instead of that they display their might my degenerating part of modern western tradition including human rights to suit their religion/politics with help of greedy Bernie.

[mcdenife]

If it is so irellevant than why Bahrain officials insist on that?

Because it is not irrelevant to Bahrainis. What Bahrain choose to do in Bahrain is the business of Bahrain. Has there ever been a country that has changed its politics/culture/tradition/rules to suit F1 or any other sporting event thats coming to town? At the next race or the one after, there will be "alcohol" sprayed (this is what its afterall). So I cannot see how they have "degenerated western tradition" assuming there is such thing as 'western tradition'.

[Tom]

I think we should respect a countries tradition.

[manchild]

Hosting international competition and banning citizens of one nation to be a part of it is not a tradition - it is violation of human rights.

I agree that what happens in Bahrain is their free will and that it should be respected but if they want to host international competition with 100 years of tradition than they should take it as it is or not take it at all.

What they do is like taking something from the shop and charging shop owner for it.

In F1 everyone is free to eat, drink, believe in god or not ... whatever... but Bahrain as host of F1 partly denies that rights people who are part of F1 and who are coming to Bahrain.

What about rights of people all around the world who would like to see champagne and pit babes and who wouldn’t ban Israelis or anyone else? They expect that, it is the part of their tradition and heritage they nurture! That is why I don’t agree that the one who bans things and puts down certain people because of their nationality should be considered as party equally respected in any matter.

It is the mater of principle - if they want to be in a game they should respect rules or don't play at all. Simple as that.

If F1 is genuinely "dirty" because of champagne, pit babes and for not banning Israelis to be a part of it than why are they trying to take something as "dirty" as F1 and "wash it" to suit their own demands?

F1 runs around the globe without any similar problems, it was running for several years under the "iron curtain" in Hungary, it runs now in China too and no other host tried to change it but Bahrain. That is why I think that their decision is hypocrite and based on display of fundamentalism because Turkey and Malaysia are also Islamic countries and no such demands were ever heard over there.

[mcdenife]

I think you should define what is an islamic country. Bahrain is an islamic country. Turkey and Malaysia are not.

In F1 everyone is free to eat, drink, believe in god or not ... whatever... but Bahrain as host of F1 partly denies that rights people who are part of F1 and who are coming to Bahrain.

Nobody said they are not free to drink.

Internation events ALWAYS adjusts to their hosts cultures, sensitivies etc etc. Just because in this case it happens to be alcohol, should F1 not respect it?

Just because alcohol is not "frowned on" in most of the other countries visited by F1 does not mean F1 does not make other concession/compromise etc etc. depending on the local laws/cultures/traditions.
Champagn and pitbabes are not the reason F1 is interesting and they are certainly not F1 traditions.
To talk about human rights with regards to champagn and pitbabes is laughable. Thats like saying my human rights were violated at last years monaco race because someone said I cannot watch practice on Friday but I can on thursday.
Bahrain does not and has not decided what is right/wrong for F1, or any other country for that matter, only what is right/wrong for Bahrain in Bahrain.
Is ANYTHING thats banned in your country a violation of your human rights?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

It is true that alcohol can be bought in places within Bharain. But loyal muslim bharani's dont drink it. It is there for tourists, like those which come with the F1 circus.

As a Muslim country drinking in Bharain is prohibited (for the residents & muslim nationals that is), and as such portrayal of alcohol on such a huge stage is not accepted.

A few bars & pubs which cater for tourists is not as detrimental to their beliefs as a sport which is viewed by millions.

Now if F1 is willing to respect their wishes and use a champange substitue, then why is there a problem, just for the sake of tradition? If nobody told you there was a difference we wouldn't complain...we couldn't tell the difference, so why are we complaining. The only people who have ANY right to complain are those three drivers on the podium, cause only they get close enough to really notice any difference.

Monza 2001...no champange was sprayed because of the tragic events of 9-11. It is a similar but so so huge reason why we dont do it in Bharain...because it would not be respectful.

I often go to a Muslim resturant which does not sell alcohol (Mirch Masala in Tooting, London, UK in case anybody wonders). Many people bring alcohol into the resturant with them, but I - like many others - do not, we believe it is disrespectful to do so. We do not go as guests to someone else's house to abide by our own rules, we must abide by the rules of the owner, as such we must abide by the laws of a country we visit purely out of respect. And as great a tradition as it is to spray champange on the podium, no silly tradition, not even this one, is as important as the religeous beliefs of an entire nation, and therefore should never take presidence.

Just like that resturant, if I simply MUST have an alcoholic drink with my curry I will go to another resturant, I will not impose my own beliefs on those of the owner. It is just disrespectful, as also very arrogant.

[manchild]

I think you should define what is an islamic country. Bahrain is an islamic country. Turkey and Malaysia are not.

Turkey and Malaysia have half-moon on their flags - Bahrain doesn't.

....Is ANYTHING thats banned in your country a violation of your human rights?

Of course it is!

All over the world governments violate human rights of their citizens in greater or smaller amount; no country is free from that.

...

Spencifer_Murphy,

I agree about respecting the customs of the host but F1 is invited guest in Bahrain and it is not some stranger who dropped in or a customer that came in to buy something.

My own courtesy tells me that desired and invited guest in my house should be favored over myself. Being good host requires pleasing guest and trying to make him feel as comfortable as possible while hosts of Bahrain GP do the opposite to their guests.

After becoming part of the F1 calendar they’ve additionally imposed changes in champagne ceremony, banned pit babes and banned citizens of Israel to come to Bahrain.

FIA regulation should be the law of laws when it matters F1 without any religious/politics of hosts interfering with that.

Once again I ask – what would happen if some driver or team member was from Israel? Should he be left out of the race in Bahrain or perhaps allowed to enter Bahrain only if he puts yellow David’s star on his overall?


....
*Bare in mind that I'm not considering this as fight with any of forum member but only as discussion about an issue*

[Tom]

The bottom line is that if we don't accept their religiouse rules and traditions, their people might not take so kindly to F1.

We would be pretty pissed if the people of Bahrain ignored our safety rules and lined up at the edge of the track.

[jaslfc]

Malaysia is a modern islamic country. Because a high percentage of the population is not muslims.. they allow others to freely chose their religion. However, out of respect to islam, they too do not give champagne to the winners in malaysia.. they give some kinda rose water(if im not mistaken)

[manchild]

...However, out of respect to islam, they too do not give champagne to the winners in malaysia.. they give some kinda rose water(if im not mistaken)

That is in Bahrain, in Malaysia they use champagne

[Tom]

Put it this way.

As aviewer, if you hadn't been told, would you know that that wasn't champagne.

Also it allows the drivers to drive themseleves home.

[mcdenife]

Turkey and Malaysia have half-moon on their flags - Bahrain doesn't.

An islamic state is not defined by whether is has a half moon on its flag or not. That the main religion of a country is islam/christianity etc does not make it an islamic/christian state. Islam is the main religion religion of Turkey and Malaysia but neither of them are are not islamic states ie, religion and state are separate.

FIA regulation should be the law of laws when it matters F1 without any religious/politics of hosts interfering with that.

So the laws of an entire nation should be superceeded by F1 regs/laws no matter the country? It is not done, has never been done and can never be. Not even UN regs/laws superceed that of a state.

My own courtesy tells me that desired and invited guest in my house should be favored over myself. Being good host requires pleasing guest and trying to make him feel as comfortable as possible while hosts of Bahrain GP do the opposite to their guests.

These are your own beliefs and admirable as they may be, you are saying, in effect, that your beliefs are right and ok but not those of others.

[manchild]

... These are your own beliefs and admirable as they may be, you are saying, in effect, that your beliefs are right and ok but not those of others.

I think that courtesy to guests is more-less the same on every place on the globe when it matters common people. I'm sure that common people from Bahrain would treat individual guests from west much better than Bahraini officials treat F1.

I'm trying to point out that I'm not equalizing every citizen of any country with official politics and laws of their countries by default and all I wrote before was not aimed against citizens of Bahrain but against their rulers who put everything they don’t like in same bag with tradition in order to make it "secret" and unquestionable.

[mcdenife]

But the host deserves some courtesy too

[manchild]

I agree 100%. Mutual courtesy is the key.