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That engine that was banned was not your average Wankel ... have a look at the weight of that thing, it was heavily engineered to get it to last, Wankel engines will never be able to compete against the current formula one engines in weight vs power vs reliability.
The biggest problems were not the rotors themselves but the rotor tip seals they were cracking and wearing badly. This gave all sorts of sealing problems Masda were the only manufacturer to really get the motor to a sensible level of reliability to enable production of an effective engine in mainstream production.
hey, i've found a pic of a wankel engine of a mazda.The size of the engine is so small. considering the size,the engine must be lighter too. wonder if it might give an advantage to the engineers of constructing a smaller rear end or putting a larger fuel tank if mounted on an F1 car.
[img]http://image_www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/1045-7.jpg[/img]
OK here are two facts of wankel motor. The first is that this motor can easily stand a rpm over 20.000. The second fact is that it hasn't gor very much of tourqe.
I agree with Skjar. If F1 teams have enough technology to build an engine capable of completing a 4 stroke cycle at 19,000rpm, i dont see why Rotary engines wouldnt be up there with similar technologies and composites.
Here's a good picture of a rotary engine Mazda developed for Lemans in 1991 and 1992. It's an inline quad rotor layout each containing 654cc(twice as much as modern f1 engines) but producing 690bhp at 9000rpm. And if you see the picture it's simplicity is simple elegant. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/mazdar26b.html
And this is the final Lemans racer Mazda built in 1992 before they pulled out. It's still one of only two examples of rotary powered race cars in Lemans. Probably the most powerful rotary powerplant for cars as well. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RX-792P.htm
The Rotary is a great engine and as you guys have stated should be in F1 in fact I long to see it in F1 so that it becomes more technologically advanced and gets better fuel economy (also for the thrill of a high tech rotary). Cheers to you all great discussion and that is all I have to say.
Bear
Bear87G wrote:The Rotary is a great engine and as you guys have stated should be in F1 in fact I long to see it in F1 so that it becomes more technologically advanced and gets better fuel economy (also for the thrill of a high tech rotary). Cheers to you all great discussion and that is all I have to say.
Bear
Well it's very expensive for the manufacturers to switch from short-life V10s to long life V10s... and they use the same engine configuration, most likely just different materials and composities. Now imagine what it would be like to switch to a completely different engine, especially one that doesn't use pistons.
You have to also consider the g-forces acting on the engine, CofG, etc...
No harm meant but I myself am very aware of the costs and speculation around the change of types of engines. First off the rotary happens to be one of the simplest engine design while being very power effective but suffering from bad fuel economy. Engine design in formula one is very expensive as you stated as you know Renault moved from there exceptional 111 degree angle v to the 72 degree angle v partly because of the new rules. The ability to change to a different engine of the same type if you read Renault's posted info on there site is tremendous. A rotary would probably involve years of research and development before being put into a single race or open testing session. That kind of dedication is what is so perfect about F1 it shows the highest technology and engine resources on the planet.
Bear
If the regs allowed, no doubt wankel engines would be very successful in F1, you don't exactly win at Le mans, or indeed the Isle of Man TT with an uncompetitive engine design!
Oz
p.s. think you'll find the concept does work as a diesel
Hello, I stumbled on your rotary discussion, I drive a 1992 rx-7, so I have a 13b-rew engine. It would be great to see a rotary engine in f1! And a 4rotor engine at 9000 rpms produces a real awesome sound! http://www.nightracer.com/787.html . If you want to hear, there is a vid on this site. Greetz
I can see there no 'rotor heads' as myself here in this forum. First of all, I can see that folks here are very concentrated on F1 and maybe not the rest of the racing world. Mazda has come a long long ways since it bought the rights to the rotary engine from the German designer Felix Wankel I believe in the 60's. Mercede tried even to develop the rotary but gave up.
In Mazda's early development of this wonderful engine, there were problems with the seals and high oil consumption. But, through more development they overcame this problem coming out with the likes of he RX-2, RX-3, RX-4 and a little sport car that I believe most of you F1 folks might have heard of called the RX-7. Once the RX-7 hit the shores of America, it quickly became a force with its rotary engine to be taken seriously. The 'little engine that could' did exactly that, by going out and winning IMSA championship after championship, not only in America but Europe as well in the World Sport Car Endurance series. Mazda with its rotary engine was the FIRST manufacturer to achieve 100 car racing wins the fastest (faster than any other car manufacturer) with all three of its rotary engines (2-rotor, 3-rotor and 4-rotor)
Over the years, Mazda continued to develop better and better seals, that today makes this engine even more reliable than ever! If you talk with just about any rotary race team(including manufacturer backed and private) they will tell you that over a race season they never have to break-down their engines to rebuild them. The rotary is that bullet proof!!
One last thing folks. Mazda became the first (not Toyota, Nissan or Honda) Japanese car manufacturer to win the 24 hours of LeMans in 1991 in the top category of group C1 with a 4-rotor engine. Interesting, FIA band the rotary and turbo charging the very next year in this series. What a 'bone-head' thing to do.
Problems the rotary has are low end torque and still a little more oil consumption then piston engines. But, my 1991 RX-7 is still hot off the line and uses little oil, even as I put 500 miles a week on it going to and from work.
So, a 3 or 4 rotor Mazda rotary placed into a F1 or Indy type car, would quickly become a major force for the likes of Ferrari, McClaren and the rest to deal with. Mazda also uses the rotary in the RX-8 and soon returning RX-7 for 2011. Long live the rotary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 1991, Mazda became the first and only Japanese car manufacturer to win the Le Mans endurance race. Using the Wankel rotary engine, it was also the only non-piston engine car to ever win. All three Mazda 787B cars to enter the race finished the event in respectable 1st, 6th and 8th positions. Of a total of 46 entrants, only 12 cars officially finished the race.
*Edit* : oops , didn't see tthat something similar was posted on the earlier post. Interesting
Anyway if i am correct rotary engines were banned from the subsequent races
