Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

you will also likely know how good your base design for the W0 was in relation to other cars without an EBD.
Lastsyears concept fits closer to 2012 rules as someone mentioned.

I don't see a disadvantage to testing W02 at the first test. the engine is the same as last year. the gearbox may be new butit will have been run on thebench for a while by now so its not an unknown entity.
So by Thursday Merc should knowif they were really 1sec off the pace if they were actually closer if measured against noon EBD cars

Agree with this.

But the ebd was something Mercedes didn't see coming(in RB guise at least).
They seemed intent on design a slippery car with high top speeds. This was in direct contrast to the RB philosophy of high downforce.
I see Newey reckons the clocks have been set back to 2009. No DDD and no EBD.
And Mercedes experience in have the fastest non ebd car(along with Renault) will stand them in good stead.

The gap between merc and the front shrunk by all accounts, due to the ebd ban.

[raymondu999]

The gap between merc and the front shrunk by all accounts, due to the ebd ban.

Correction: SHOULD shrink

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Oh thanks all-seeing-eye.

I guess Neweys word isn't enough to go by on this.

We designed the RB7, last year's car, around that exhaust position and were probably the only people to do so, so we've lost more than other people through that

And why

RB7 was designed around the exhaust, this year knowing that the exhaust position from last year would be taken away, we've had to go back and look at how we developed the car through the last one and two years with the side exit exhaust and try and, if you like, make sure that the routes we had taken that were only suitable for that exhaust position we now had to re-evaluate. Probably one of the key things there is the rear ride height. The exhaust allowed us to run a high rear ride height, it's much more difficult without that to sustain a high rear height so we have to go back down and have to redevelop the car around that lower ride height.

Basically its trump card has been taken away, and made redundant. No more steep rake, no more tricks.
Theyll be ahead but from this I bet not by much if anything at all.
This all bodes very well for the opposition.

[Ferraripilot]

Right JET. Their entire design paradigm has changed from the bedrock up. I believe the Mclaren had possibly Ferrari had more outright downforce minus the EBD at the end of last year. This will be a very different year for Red Bull and very possibly for Mercedes if they simply even out the fundamental kinks with W02. Otherwise it was a good car.

[dren]

Right JET. Their entire design paradigm has changed from the bedrock up. I believe the Mclaren had possibly Ferrari had more outright downforce minus the EBD at the end of last year. This will be a very different year for Red Bull and very possibly for Mercedes if they simply even out the fundamental kinks with W02. Otherwise it was a good car.

I will go out on a limb and say Mercedes had more downforce sans EBD last year. They built the car around the short floor. The Mclaren and Red Bull were built with the blown diffuser in mind.

I expect the top to tighten up a lot. I don't expect Mercedes to win races, but I expect podiums on occasion. There could be possibly 5 teams slugging it out.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Precisely Ferrairpilot.

Newey is saying the RB8 is basically an RB5 evolved.

Nothing is certain in life, but my opinion is that Red Bull need something new(which they are capable of) to maintain their car advantage.
Other wise the rules as they stand favour the chasers, of that there is no doubt.

[Mr.S]

Ohh RBR hands down was still the fastest or near about even without EBD. The Mercedes engine teams gained much more in comparison with the Renault powered teams.

The hot blowing of Mercedes was far superior to Renault's cold blowing. The other issue is Mclaren were by far the team which were severly depended on EBD. Their Octupus exhaust was also based on Blowing the Diffuser. The U pods,the longer wheelbase were all designed for that.

Ferrari powered teams will do better & maybe Mercedes due to thair SWB not utilizing the EBD fully.

This is a very good car & WILL be very competitive (THE RB8). The whole field would tighten up now that EBD has done but RB8 will be up there.

[raymondu999]

Ohh RBR hands down was still the fastest or near about even without EBD.

Maybe not over a stint though - the Ferrari was quite good over stints in Silvy.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@mr S

The Mercedes started with a SWB side blown exhaust concept. It was a meter out from the diffuser, and was the least effective of all concepts.
Only when they switched to the red bull style mid season could you say that it was of mediocre benefit.
They pulled out on Renault but couldn't make much in roads on the top 3.
Why?
The car was not designed for this concept.

I'd hazard a guess that of you took EBDs off all the cars last year, and set them up with periscope exhausts...we would see the Mercedes claw back more than any car ahead of it.
Let's see the long runs, and wether Mercedes will again be all over the place on the timings. If we see consistency with a bit of pace it will warm the cocles of my heart.

[retpog55]

Last year - first Jerez test times.

Day 1 from Jerez (10 Feb 2011)

Driver - Team - Best Lap time - Laps
Massa - Ferrari - 1:20.709 - 101
Perez - Sauber - 1:21.483 - 94
Webber - Red Bull - 1:21.522 - 94
Ricciardo - Toro Rosso - 1:21.755 - 31
Hamilton - McLaren - 1:21.914 - 58
Alguersuari - Toro Rosso - 1:22.689 - 42
Sutil - Force India - 1:23.472 - 28
Petrov - Renault - 1:23.504 - 57
Rosberg - Mercedes - 1:23.963 - 67
Trulli - Lotus - 1:24.458 - 54
Glock - Virgin - 1:25.086 - 42
Maldonado - Williams - 1:34.968 13

67 laps last year on day one. The lap times are something to look at tommorow to see if they are similar with updated W02 car on newer tyres etc....providing they adopt a similar first day program to last year that is. All completely meaningless at this stage i appreciate but better than nothing i suppose.

[raymondu999]

S, JET - I think let's just leave things at that and talk after tomorrow's times are out

I don't remember lap and sector times ever being released from testing though - I just remember the fastest time being released after testing sessions. How do you propose to catch the sector and stint times JET?

After that happens then we can at least do some maths on the stint timings - be it by standard deviation or however you propose.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

F1live.nl

And a Russian feed and a Williams feed.

Stints with number of laps, the time of day they were set and the tyre they were on.
The only thing missing is fuel load. And no amount of telemetry can give you a definitive answer there.

[Joie de vivre]

is it possible to watch tomorrows test on internet?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

is it possible to watch tomorrows test on internet?

Sky!

[raymondu999]

F1live.nl

And a Russian feed and a Williams feed.

Stints with number of laps, the time of day they were set and the tyre they were on.
The only thing missing is fuel load. And no amount of telemetry can give you a definitive answer there.

You could probably do that. With some fancy analysis based on sound, and the differences of the car's acceleration as it goes through the traction/power/drag-limited phases of the straights; but obviously nothing that we could probably reasonably do with our equipment.

Do the feeds you mentioned give you the timings at the end of the day, or do you have to kind of manually "capture" each number as they appear, either by righting a script or by eye?

is it possible to watch tomorrows test on internet?

Sky!

Sky is covering it? It would be a fantastic fit for their F1 channel, mind... imagine full day coverage of F1 winter testing on that channel.