Time to ditch DRS?

[myurr]

Let's say there was a DRS failure in a high speed corner, how bad could the accident potentially be?

How many DRS zones end in a high speed corner next to a brick wall? None that I can think of, even Monaco.

Chances are the driver will have an off and either brake in a straight line into the run off or have a relatively low speed impact with the barrier if they make it that far.

It's no more unsafe than many of the other failures that are possible in F1.

[SeijaKessen]

Let's say there was a DRS failure in a high speed corner, how bad could the accident potentially be?

How many DRS zones end in a high speed corner next to a brick wall? None that I can think of, even Monaco.

Chances are the driver will have an off and either brake in a straight line into the run off or have a relatively low speed impact with the barrier if they make it that far.

It's no more unsafe than many of the other failures that are possible in F1.

I'm speaking in terms of if the flap happened to open up on a section of the track where no DRS zone exists.

[bhall]

I just wonder if the risk, however major or slight, is worth it, considering that tire degradation has largely erased any need for DRS, if there ever really was one to begin with.

[SeijaKessen]

I just wonder if the risk, however major or slight, is worth it, considering that tire degradation has largely erased any need for DRS, if there ever really was one to begin with.

There wasn't ever a *need* for DRS. I always viewed the introduction of DRS into F1 as a way to pander to the people who are only likely to turn a race on for a fraction of the entire race --if there is more passing they will be more likely to watch on the fear they will actually miss something-- and to appeal to those who screamed loudest that they would watch F1 if only passing actually happened more frequently.

Overtaking would be less of a problem in general IMO if F1 was not aero-dominant as it is now...that's really where the problem with overtaking has come from.

[SeijaKessen]

This article was written back in 1995 regarding overtaking in F1 at the time...might be of interest to some here.

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00196.html

[bhall]

Good stuff. I don't quite think aerodynamics is the Dark Overlord of Overtaking that some people seem to believe, but it's nice to see a balanced assessment. Clearly, the matter has been well understood for some time. There are just other forces at work, chief among them being apathy and avarice, that conspire to ensure F1 usually takes the easy way out of tough decisions.

[myurr]

I'm speaking in terms of if the flap happened to open up on a section of the track where no DRS zone exists.

Wouldn't the DRS fail to close at the end of a DRS zone so that the driver would know about it by the time they got to the next corner after that? I suppose that it could fail and then the hydraulics opens the flap but I'd imagine that would be a very unusual failure compared to it just jamming open once activated and failing to close. If pressure is lost then it's hinged at the top so would close of its own accord.

[Roland Ehnström]

DRS is artificial, boring and not needed. Voted yes.

[SeijaKessen]

Good stuff. I don't quite think aerodynamics is the Dark Overlord of Overtaking that some people seem to believe, but it's nice to see a balanced assessment. Clearly, the matter has been well understood for some time. There are just other forces at work, chief among them being apathy and avarice, that conspire to ensure F1 usually takes the easy way out of tough decisions.

Well, I think aero has made overtaking way more difficult than it was 30+ years ago.

I do agree on the statement that F1 usually takes the easy way out of any tough decision.

While I have no way to back this claim with any facts, I do think one of the reasons we have seen the influx in gimmicks such as DRS, is because it is a way to try to attract all those fringe fans who have been whining incessantly for several decades now about lack of overtaking as being the reason for not watching F1. That's important for the bottom line as it pertains to the pending IPO of F1 in Singapore; assuming that it does take eventually take place. Spiking viewing numbers artificially so the IPO can be artificially boosted would be my main guess as to why we suddenly were given DRS and questionable tires.

Is it really a coincidence that the tightening up of the field comes in this particular year when the IPO is pending?

[SeijaKessen]

I'm speaking in terms of if the flap happened to open up on a section of the track where no DRS zone exists.

Wouldn't the DRS fail to close at the end of a DRS zone so that the driver would know about it by the time they got to the next corner after that? I suppose that it could fail and then the hydraulics opens the flap but I'd imagine that would be a very unusual failure compared to it just jamming open once activated and failing to close. If pressure is lost then it's hinged at the top so would close of its own accord.

I agree it would be an unusual failure, but given we are working with machines, anything is possible regardless of how remote it may be. I am just curious as to what would happen, if such a scenario were to arise during a race.

[Shrieker]

This article was written back in 1995 regarding overtaking in F1 at the time...might be of interest to some here.

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00196.html

Good read, if you said it was written yesterday I'd believe it.

[bhall]

Well, I think aero has made overtaking way more difficult than it was 30+ years ago.

More difficult? Yes. Way more dificult? I don't think so.

Unless I read it wrong, part of that article's assertion is that the perceived decrease in overtaking likely has a lot to do with the decrease in romanticized stories being written about F1. Live TV has replaced the written word as the medium through which most experience F1, and it doesn't have the benefit of being edited for better consumption.

Think about it. If the minds behind NFL Films did 5-10 minute F1 race recaps in their usual style*, especially with that music, most who saw them would swear up and down that every race was "epic" and that every battle was "a titanic struggle."

It's all in the delivery.

Is it really a coincidence that the tightening up of the field comes in this particular year when the IPO is pending?

Gotta make those ugly cars look good somehow. Again, it's all in the delivery.


* That guy's NFL Films imitation is eerily spot-on.

[N12ck]

This is an interesting suggestion, activating DRS, anywhere, any place on the track 10 times per race, could be used for attacking, defending, that will make it less artificial

http://thef1times.com/news/display/06225

Nick

[SeijaKessen]

Well, I think aero has made overtaking way more difficult than it was 30+ years ago.

More difficult? Yes. Way more dificult? I don't think so.

Unless I read it wrong, part of that article's assertion is that the perceived decrease in overtaking likely has a lot to do with the decrease in romanticized stories being written about F1. Live TV has replaced the written word as the medium through which most experience F1, and it doesn't have the benefit of being edited for better consumption.

Think about it. If the minds behind NFL Films did 5-10 minute F1 race recaps in their usual style*, especially with that music, most who saw them would swear up and down that every race was "epic" and that every battle was "a titanic struggle."

It's all in the delivery.

Is it really a coincidence that the tightening up of the field comes in this particular year when the IPO is pending?

Gotta make those ugly cars look good somehow. Again, it's all in the delivery.


* That guy's NFL Films imitation is eerily spot-on.

I always get a good laugh watching NFL Films recaps.

The FIA season reviews for F1 tend to be of the same nature. Some of those races that were snoozefests sure look good in the season review. LOL

[Ray]

Alonso earned his spot coming out of the pits on lap 20 in Canada (he passed both Lewis AND Seb by banging out quick laps). That very same lap Lewis caught him in the hairpin, Alonso backed him up and had easily three car lengths on him by the time they hit the DRS detection line. Six seconds after they crossed the activation line, Lewis had 20kph on him and blew by him like he was tied to the ground. Lewis didn't earn that pass. The same would be true if the roles were reversed. THAT is not racing, that's Mario Kart bullshit and DRS needs to be gotten rid of. There's no guarantee that Lewis wouldn't have eventually made up the speed difference by drafting Alonso, but Alonso backed him up at the hairpin to prevent Lewis from getting a jump on him and all it took for Alonso to lose two laps of really hard work was for Lewis to extend his finger a press a button. DRS is bullshit. No matter who is overtaking whom, it needs to go away.