2014 - advantage works teams?

[raymondu999]

So people have been saying that come 2014, the works teams will have an advantage. I don't understand why though - would it be more on installation? What? Surely if it's something like aero, etc other teams - even their customers - would be able to match, or surpass it. Thoughts?

[scarbs]

I hear a lot about this, I don't see the logic in the statements.

The 2014 'engine' supply will be a complete power unit, that is the engine, the turbo and all the energy recovery systems. No engine supplier will provide units vastly different from the base design, perhaps some small differences to suit the specific installation.

Although every engine supplier is different, if we take Mercedes AMG Power trains (what was MB-HPE) they will be developing the power unit equally with Mercedes AMG F1 and McLaren, perhaps FIF1 will get less input, but I only see complete parity in the final power unit delivered to the teams.

With Renault I suspect the situation will be the same, with the two lead teams RBR and Lotus having the bigger input into the design, such is the complexity and tight integration of the 2014 ERS , I don't see Williams running their own ERS anymore, but I've not seen this reported as being confirmed any where?

Ferrari of course have a different approach to their engine supply, its a Ferrari lead development, Sauber and STR will get little input into its development.

Except for Ferrari I don't see any team gaining from the 2014 power unit supply, certainly not the night and day difference between Mac and Merc that is being touted as the reason for Hamilton's move to the Mercedes.

[astracrazy]

I'm sure i read that (regarding merc and mclaren due to Lewis) merc would gain more from making the engine and putting it into there car than mclaren would being as a customer.

for example merc can build there car around the new engine, where mclaren take what there given.

i guess this could be the same for all works and customer teams

just something i read - how true it is i dunno

[WhiteBlue]

There are some points in Scarb's post that I agree with but there are also points that I see different. From 2014 there will be no freeze as we have known it for a long time. Manufacturers can go back to reserve the latest specification to their works team and supply older versions to customers, unless there is a homologation plan that we do not know about.

There is also no agreement on resource restrictions for engine manufacturers as far as we know now. This encourages manufacturers to outspend each others in areas that are open to technical competition. Turbos, batteries, supercaps, direct injection, ignition and other areas that would rise efficiency and therefore the power output of the power train are open to competitive development. Efficiency increases will also enable teams to carry less fuel which will become a much more important advantage than it has ever been. A lighter car will accelerate and brake faster and will go faster around corners.

I see McLaren with an advantage compared to other no works teams because they may have access to many secrets by owning the electronics developer of F1. But ultimately there will be a disadvantage for all teams that have no access to the latest spec of the top drive train.

I am very curious what we will learn about the secret fight behind closed doors about an engine resource restriction. Certainly Red Bull will be pushing very hard for it. I think McLaren will be equally keen to restrict the cost of power train development and thy will get a lot of support by Williams, Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Toro Rosso, Caterham, Marussia and HRT. It is basically Merc and Ferrari against the rest.

[Cam]

So people have been saying that come 2014, the works teams will have an advantage.

To give an analogy - a works car is like Apple. They control all the components and software to deliver one united experience. This gives a coherent product they know works (to a point). A customer team is like a custom built PC - you must pull all the different supplied components and operating systems together to make your machine - all of which you have little to no influence on. This can have unforeseen bugs and conflicts that the customer has to resolve themselves, tying up resources and cash. Both solutions do offer a machine to compete with, however, I'm sure we'd all prefer a solution whereby we can control all aspects from design to completion.

From a competitive business point of view (and a drivers perspective), you want to control as much of the chain as possible and be able to directly influence the direction of the machine, with advanced knowledge of future developments and directions.

That would be an advantage.

That said, having flexibility to change suppliers quickly to obtain the best resources, is also an advantage.

A works team has access to manufacture and supplied, a custom team only has what is supplied.

[Fizz.Schumi]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Motor-Spo ... 37322.aspx

Well well well .. discuss ..

[WhiteBlue]

It is typical Bernie talk. He always uses such interviews to paint things the way he likes them to be. Quite often the opposite is actually true or will happen.

[Tommy Cookers]

Efficiency increases will also enable teams to carry less fuel which will become a much more important advantage than it has ever been. A lighter car will accelerate and brake faster and will go faster around corners.

surely they will always want to use the max fuel (rate) allowed ?
(to do this they would surely carry (close to) the max fuel (weight) allowed ?)

and use their efficiency gain to get more power ?

[raymondu999]

Not as clear cut IMO. There are times when it's more advantageous to have the lighter load rather than max power. Less tyre wear, quicker cornering etc.

[raymondu999]

Talking to Mark Gallagher (ex-Cosworth), he says that given the lack of a development freeze (yet) on the new engine, then the works teams will typically get the latest improvements and development paths. Though this can sometimes lead to being too on-edge and unreliable, probably like Valencia showed the Renault engine boys...