oh dear - Romain

[stefan_]

^ Agreed. This is a constructive argument - he should go back to school or he should get some type of counselling, but not arguments like "he is dumb / he must be banned for life". I'm sure that he didn't get in F1 because he is dumb and I don't think that people who watch F1 for a long time to make a good appreciation about the incident give that kind of arguments.

[Nando]

The main problem is his doesn´t seem to learn from any of his mistakes.

All he says is "I like to move on"
No sh*t sherlock, but maybe you should have a serious thinker on why you keep turning it into a full contact sport?

This time he just drove right into Webber, ridiculous.

[f1316]

I think the point is that there has to be a logical escalation of punishment. Was it previously a bit harsh to ban him for a race? Maybe so. But having done so, and Grosjean having made another first lap error in his second race back, the next punishment has to be more severe.

I would say a 2 or 3 race ban is logical at this point. It's pretty severe, but as has been said, he doesn't seem to have learnt.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Has Grosjean really moved out of GP2? I think he's still back over there.
He needs a teacher - well, not Kimi, obviously, but someone who has had tons of experience and Lotus have handy or can hire.

Being able to extract pace for one lap out of the car doesn't really make you suitable for F1 - you have to drive that car through the finish line and get a points. Has Maldonado learned? His actions say: Yes. He scored 4 points and the car was whole, as opposed to Singapore, but he drove wisely over there, allowing VET to pass - know your battles.

So, back on the point - Romain needs a lesson. Being out of race is certainly not a lesson - he needs proper mentality and racing experience.

[Raptor22]

The real causal is the lack of testing.
If he was given more testing time He would be more comfortable.

Competancy in 95% repetitive action and 5% pure skill. This testing restriction is not playing into building good competant drivers. Its ruining more careers than creating them.

[jdlive]

Then they need to revoke Hamilton's superlicense as well for last season's antics.

How many race starts did Hamilton wreck out last year?

Does it really matter if it happens during a start or during the race?

[Raptor22]

Then they need to revoke Hamilton's superlicense as well for last season's antics.

How many race starts did Hamilton wreck out last year?

Does it really matter if it happens during a start or during the race?

keep it on topic please. this is not a thread for comparing one drivers transgressiona against another.

[Nando]

Does it really matter if it happens during a start or during the race?

Completely different matter. Also you can´t simply look at one side of the coin as Massa was his companion in at least 5 of the incidents.

Grosjean just wrecks people for no reason at all. not only that but he takes out a few more guys at the back who can´t dodge his hysteric driving.

[WhiteBlue]

Being able to extract pace for one lap out of the car doesn't really make you suitable for F1 - you have to drive that car through the finish line and get a points. ... Romain needs a lesson. Being out of race is certainly not a lesson - he needs proper mentality and racing experience.

Yes, that seems to be the problem. Lotus may have to give him a race engineer who can also baby sit him through the race by anticipating problems ahead and mentally prepare him. That and some mental training to cope with the excess agression at the race start.

[example]

What if Grosjean is another Bernie's idea to spice things up a bit?

[turbof1]

The real causal is the lack of testing.
If he was given more testing time He would be more comfortable.

Competancy in 95% repetitive action and 5% pure skill. This testing restriction is not playing into building good competant drivers. Its ruining more careers than creating them.

I don't agree here. There are so many examples of drivers who had the same amount of testing time: Perez, Di Resta, Hulk, even maldonado, and who did it better then Grosjean. Furthermore, teams have simulators. There's not really an excuse to keep repeating the same mistake.
The irony is that when the FIA steps in and gives Grosjean a harsh penalty, Maldonado is the one to understand the lesson. Just look at him: he drove superb the last couple of races.

[tathan]

ok so the options

pit lane starts - whats the point of him turning up for FP1, 2 + 3 then?

ban him - no opportunity for him to learn

fantastic suggestions

here's something from left field - why not let him carry on taking race starts? shock horror, he's a kid, a very fast kid under pressure to perform against a very fast rally driver / former F1 world champion. nerves mean nothing. he's trying too hard.

who gives a flying turd about mark webber, he's a moaning always hard done by idiot who's got just enough talent to justify a red bull drive. i'd rather Webber left the sport than Romain.

rant over before i start swearing

If he started from the pits for the next 2 or 3 races he might settle down and learn a bit of race craft without the massive pressure of screwing up yet another first lap. FP1 2 & 3 is for practice and race setup as well, not just for qualifying. Grosjean could obviously do with all the practice he can get currently so that argument doesn't really hold water. And even if it did (which it doesn't) - so what? He loses out on something because of his mistakes? Isn't that the definition of a punishment?

I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up about Webber, might not be the very fastest in the field but he's pretty complete, honest, likable and down to earth - has he done something personal to you?

[Shrieker]

Maldonado has driven a couple of very clean, impressive even, races. It might be luck, or it might be that he's learning.

Well, he's been flying under the radar and not over his competitors cars. Maybe that's the difference!

So why do you think PM deserves a few races to prove he's alright, and not Romain ?

The same as his incident in Spa and Monaco - no awareness of anything outside his focus.

With all due respect, this time it was nothing like SPA and Monaco. In those occasions he was well ahead of other cars - apart from his rear tire. If you come to think of it, drivers like Alonso and Hamilton have done the same mistake at least once in the past 2 years (Hamilton at SPA 2011, and Alonso this weekend). So you should just cut a half rookie some slack for that But I agree his blunder this time was far worse. I think he was trying to avoid Perez and keep ahead of him at the same time, but didn't think he'd close on Webber so fast - he expected empty tarmac there. Bad error of judgement, served his penalty - which sends a clear signal that he'll be banned again if he screws up once more.

Time to move on.

[Websta]

The same as his incident in Spa and Monaco - no awareness of anything outside his focus.

With all due respect, this time it was nothing like SPA and Monaco. In those occasions he was well ahead of other cars - apart from his rear tire.

I meant that all three accidents resulted from him focusing on one car and missing the other completely - but you could say that is the cause of all collisions at the start of a race, aside from outbreaking, so it was a pretty weak comment on my part.

If you come to think of it, drivers like Alonso and Hamilton have done the same mistake at least once in the past 2 years (Hamilton at SPA 2011, and Alonso this weekend). So you should just cut a half rookie some slack for that But I agree his blunder this time was far worse. I think he was trying to avoid Perez and keep ahead of him at the same time, but didn't think he'd close on Webber so fast - he expected empty tarmac there. Bad error of judgement, served his penalty - which sends a clear signal that he'll be banned again if he screws up once more.

Time to move on.

Yeah, I agree - no need to beat a dead horse. The discussion should be put on hold until after Korea (hopefully he keeps it clean and doesn't interfere with the championship there)

[SeijaKessen]

The real causal is the lack of testing.
If he was given more testing time He would be more comfortable.

Competancy in 95% repetitive action and 5% pure skill. This testing restriction is not playing into building good competant drivers. Its ruining more careers than creating them.

I agree with this.

This is one of the more unfortunate aspects of the in-season testing ban. These guys rarely get any time in their car outside of a race weekend, and a few select testing days.

There's really something to be said when drivers can test their cars. Every other sport that requires equipment to participate, the players are free to practice as much as they want with the equipment they use in competition. I don't see why F1 should be any different truthfully.