What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

Stradivarius wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
Joie de vivre wrote:Well I see Vettel again as a world champion ... :?
To be fair, two races ago, we all said that about Alonso...
To be really fair, not all of us said that.
To be really fair, not all of us are saying it's certain vettel will be champion now.

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

RBR look untouchable at the moment. Am not sure if it is due to their ddrs. I think it will be difficult for vettel and the drink company not to win double championship this season.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

Interesting statistics stradivarius! Thanks for researching it. I don't believe that you can project the past forward but it puts the things nicely into perspective and adds a good aspect to the discussion.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Phil
66
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

Stradivarius wrote:When looking at the previous 5 races it might give us some idea of what to expect from the next 5 races, although all the contenders have been affect by DNFs. Vettel has taken 80 points, despite his DNF at Monza, where he looked like he could take another 10 points. Alonso has taken only 40 points, as the last 5 races has been the worst 5-race period for him so far this year (with 2 DNFs), comming just after 3 strong races during the middle of the season where he tok two victories and a second place. Hamilton has taken 60 points during the last 5 races and that is actually his strongest 5-race period this year, despite two retirements. Based on the recent results, I would say that Vettel is clear favourite of winning the championship. 80 points in 5 races will give Vettel a total of 270 points. I would say that this is way out of Hamiltons reach. He would have to take 4 victories and a second place in order to reach 270 points.
Excellent numbers. Do keep in mind though that if Hamilton were to score 4 victories and a second place in order to reach 270 points, Vettel wouldn't be close to that benchmark - obviously, because one drivers win is another ones points lost.

I also think Hamilton is the dark horse in this case - he's won the same amount of races as Vettel in the past 5 races - if it weren't for his 3 retirements in the last 6 races, he'd probably have scored more points than any driver in that period. At the very least, that DNF in Singapore must have hurt, not only costing him 25 points, but also gifting Vettel an additional 7 points (25, instead of 18) and Alonso 3 points (15 instead of 12). That would make the numbers 85 for Hamilton, compared to 73 for Vettel. On the other hand, Vettels alternator failure when he was running 6th at Monza with 5 laps to go, cost him 8 points. So it would be closer with 81 points for Vettel and 85 for Hamilton (not counting Hamiltons DNF in Spa).

The last 5 races have been equally difficult for Alonso - with, I would say, 2 potential 3rd places at Spa and Suzuka. If we add that to his total, it would be closer to 70 points.

To recap (points last 5 races without DNFs -- * = fantasy points):

Vettel: HUN 12, SPA 18, ITA *8, SIN *18, JPN 25 = 81
Hamilton: HUN 25, SPA *8, ITA 25, SIN *25, JPN *8 = 91
Alonso: HUN 10, SPA *15, ITA 15, SIN *12, JPN *15 = 67

Bear in mind, these are the points I came up with assuming no DNFs and I made an estimate where they would have finished and rewarded points to the other drivers using that accoardingly. E.g.: in Suzuka, had Alonso finished, I'm pretty sure he would have finished ahead of Hamilton, so I dropped him down from 5th to 6th while awarding Alonso a 3rd place finish. I guess, realistically, I could have dropped Hamilton down another place, because Webber would have scored a higher finish as well. The 2 points difference is not detrimental to the overall pointscore though. I think they are reasonable guesses, assuming a normal race. The numbers show that if a team could get things right and not suffer technical DNF, the race is very close. It also shows that Hamilton and Vettel are very close to each other - too close in results for Hamilton to close the gap to Vettel, assuming no more DNFs for either drivers.

Just for the fun of it:
Kimi: HUN 18, SPA 15, ITA 10, SIN *6, JPN *6 = 55

I personally think this is Vetels to lose now, as I consider RedBull the strongest team. I'm not too sure Hamilton should be counted out though. Some strong finishes could turn the table, although the likelyhood of that happening are slim IMO, since he doesn't only have one gap to close, but two. And the likelyhood of both Vettel and Alonsos having a DNF are slim... I also think there will be at least one more DNF for one of the 3 WDC contenders in the remaining races.

A strong Hamilton/McLaren, could make things even more interesting between Alonso and Vettel though.

It's going to be very interesting indeed.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

lebesset
lebesset
7
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

personally I would love to see a DNF from alonso and vettel in korea , kimi and hamilton 1st and 2nd [ in either order ]

would give us the best season ending for many years imho
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

User avatar
dren
227
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

I say this as a joke, but also a serious remark in the same:

Wherever Grosjean qualifies will have a significant impact to the championship. It already has, and will continue to do so.
Honda!

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

These are the odds after the Korean race with four rounds to go:
Fernando Alonso 3.85 (=25% chance)
Sebastian Vettel 1.35 (=75% chance)
Lewis Hamilton 130
Kimi Räikkönen 120
Ferrari did a marvellous job at damage limitation on a track that suited their cars more than their rivals. Their Korean updates seem to have worked, so that Red Bull lost a bit of ground in terms of performance but are still ahead in quali pace.

Ferrari could close the gap in India with a big upgrade package that they have announced, but the circuit could favour Red Bull with the faster corners. So it looks like another head to head weekend in two weeks time for Fernando and Sebastian. Sebastian obviously now has some support by Mark Webber who was extremely non aggressive at the second corner of the race. He probably realized that his championship chance is so small that the team would be very angry if he had picked a fight there. Vettel can use some support as Alonso is getting it all season. I feel that Alonso's odds could be actually a bit shorter in reality than 3.85. I see them with Vettel 60% and Alonso 40% for the championship right now.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

RB7ate9
RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

As Massa gets better and the RB8 gets better all-around, the last 4 races will definitely see Ferrari and Red Bull use their lower-points drivers to get their WDC contenders into the best spots.

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

Has Alonso used up his last fresh engine?

lebesset
lebesset
7
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

with the incredible reliability of the ferrari and the current turn of speed you can see 4 good results for alonso

but with the speed of the red bull you can see 3 wins for vettel [ webber will certainly support him now ] ...even with a DNF that would be enough even if alonso had 1 win and 3 seconds .....and it is hard to imagine him achieving that ! McLaren surely won't be as bad ALL of the remaining races
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

lebesset wrote:with the incredible reliability of the ferrari and the current turn of speed you can see 4 good results for alonso

but with the speed of the red bull you can see 3 wins for vettel [ webber will certainly support him now ] ...even with a DNF that would be enough even if alonso had 1 win and 3 seconds .....and it is hard to imagine him achieving that ! McLaren surely won't be as bad ALL of the remaining races
I think McLaren WILL be as bad all of the remaining races. Realistically they screwed their chances at both the WDC and WCC. What's the point continueing the work on the current car? They are better off focussing on next year's car. Yes I know they practically can take almost everything from this season to the next, but still it would be better now shifting focus to next year.
#AeroFrodo

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

turbof1 wrote:
lebesset wrote:with the incredible reliability of the ferrari and the current turn of speed you can see 4 good results for alonso

but with the speed of the red bull you can see 3 wins for vettel [ webber will certainly support him now ] ...even with a DNF that would be enough even if alonso had 1 win and 3 seconds .....and it is hard to imagine him achieving that ! McLaren surely won't be as bad ALL of the remaining races
I think McLaren WILL be as bad all of the remaining races. Realistically they screwed their chances at both the WDC and WCC. What's the point continueing the work on the current car? They are better off focussing on next year's car. Yes I know they practically can take almost everything from this season to the next, but still it would be better now shifting focus to next year.
Ferrari might have abandon their development plan after running into wind tunnel issues. I doubt they are able to bring anything significant for the remaining races. Can sense that frustration from Alonso interview.

jdlive
jdlive
-3
Joined: 23 Oct 2011, 12:16

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

The car is fast enough, look at Massa's speed the last few races. It's Alonso himself that is simply too slow/not good enough.
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

CHT wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
lebesset wrote:with the incredible reliability of the ferrari and the current turn of speed you can see 4 good results for alonso

but with the speed of the red bull you can see 3 wins for vettel [ webber will certainly support him now ] ...even with a DNF that would be enough even if alonso had 1 win and 3 seconds .....and it is hard to imagine him achieving that ! McLaren surely won't be as bad ALL of the remaining races
I think McLaren WILL be as bad all of the remaining races. Realistically they screwed their chances at both the WDC and WCC. What's the point continueing the work on the current car? They are better off focussing on next year's car. Yes I know they practically can take almost everything from this season to the next, but still it would be better now shifting focus to next year.
Ferrari might have abandon their development plan after running into wind tunnel issues. I doubt they are able to bring anything significant for the remaining races. Can sense that frustration from Alonso interview.
They might use Toyota's wind tunnel again? They are definitely not abandoning development right now. I heard they are bringing a big upgrade package to India and for the rest they will most likely keep bringing updates every race until mathematical exclusion.
#AeroFrodo

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: What are the odds of Alonso losing it?

Post

jdlive wrote:The car is fast enough, look at Massa's speed the last few races. It's Alonso himself that is simply too slow/not good enough.
Yes, Massa has been quicker than Alonso in Japan and Korea IMO. Weird...
失败者找理由,成功者找方法