Pique Jr - Alonso would be WDC in a Lotus or Sauber

[raymondu999]

Ack. Don't know why I missed that one. Yep, that was also a fair and square beat-up too.

[xDama]

"The Ferrari is worse than those two, but sometimes a miracle is done because of Alonso. I think if he was in a Sauber or Lotus he would be world champion easily,"

"I see those cars (Lotus and Sauber) in the front sometimes, but there is always the question: is it the car or the driver?"

[FoxHound]

Bottom line....ask all the drivers which car they'd want.

And there would be a unanimous decision, of that I'm certain.

[raymondu999]

For this point in the season? Unanimous undoubtedly. For over the season? I can see 2 or 3 different answers.

The Red Bull is very strong now - but the McLaren, since the start of the year, has never been a car to be trifled with.

[FoxHound]

For this point in the season? Unanimous undoubtedly. For over the season? I can see 2 or 3 different answers.

The Red Bull is very strong now - but the McLaren, since the start of the year, has never been a car to be trifled with.

It's what happens over an entire season. And McLaren have displayed too much frailty in comparison to Red Bull to be compared with any degree of fairness.
Ferrari are in now way as slow as they say, they have had a handful of races where they where quicker than Red Bull.
But a handful does not win championships sadly.

If Alonso does win it this weekend, it will be one of the great WDC deciders. It wont happen, but at least we can be grateful to Ferrari for making a game of it.

[raymondu999]

Yes, but reliability is as inbuilt to a car as pace is. If I were to choose a car for 2012, with hindsight of how the cars' reliability and pace have been over the season, I'd choose McLaren to be frank. Red Bull is a close-but-not-too-close 2nd.

[mnmracer]

If you don't know the answer to that question in regards to what I said, I can only ask
Have you even been watching those races?

Would you want a fast car for 2 races, or one that dominates the most?

You cannot reason with this guy, Iv'e seen some of his posts on autosport....

There was a 50 page thread in there the other day with an in depth discussion on the topic of.

Which car is faster, Red Bull or Ferrari?

With certain individuals arguing the cars are the same pace.

Considering your reply, it's seems the problem is rather your reading skills, or lack there of.
Any hinderance in arguing is thus on your part.

WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID:
If he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

If Fernando could race the whole year for Ferrari, and had raced for Lotus in Bahrain and Hungary, he would be champion right now.
If Sebastian could race the whole year for Red Bull, and had raced for Ferrari in Spain and Italy, he would be champion right now.

Now learn to read and stop putting words in my mouth.

[mnmracer]

Bizarre, really, especially given that Vettel only re-overtook Webber in the standings post-Belgium. Absolutely bizarre.

Vettel was faster for all bar 3 races, yet was behind Webber after 11 races. Why? Reliability.

11 races - 3 in which Webber was faster = 8 races.
So just 2 DNFs, and it took 6 to get even.

This is exactly why just having a faster car does not mean it's the better car if you have reliabiity issues.

[Cylinder]

Considering your reply, it's seems the problem is rather your reading skills, or lack there of.
Any hinderance in arguing is thus on your part.

Put the Thesaurus down, put your tampon in, understand that this aint autosport forums.

Your comment was utterly nonsensical (as usual) No one is talking about putting different drivers in different cars over the course of a season, we are talking about driving the SAME cars over the course of the entire season.

This is what Piquet is saying, Put Alonso in a Lotus over the course of the WHOLE season, and he would be champion.

He didn't say, "Put Alonso in a lotus for this race, a red bull for that race, and then a ford fiesta sport on monday at 9.30am in the morning when there's little traffic.and he'd be world champion".

Understood.

[mnmracer]

[This would only be a valid point] if he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

NOW do you understand?

[Cylinder]

[This would only be a valid point] if he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

NOW do you understand?

Yes it's a stupid comment. (2 in a row for you now, well done)

What Pique is trying to saying is that the Lotus has been capable of winning multiple races over the course of the entire season and that the drivers have underperformed. A very simple concept to understand.

Thus his comment about the Lotus's and Sauber's

"is it the car or the driver?"

No need to start a yapfest about putting this and that driver in this and that car on this and that day......

It's simple.

Alonso + Lotus's 2012 car over the course of this season = WDC Title, according to Pique.

[Gerhard Berger]

Bizarre, really, especially given that Vettel only re-overtook Webber in the standings post-Belgium. Absolutely bizarre.

Vettel was faster for all bar 3 races, yet was behind Webber after 11 races. Why? Reliability.

11 races - 3 in which Webber was faster = 8 races.
So just 2 DNFs, and it took 6 to get even.

This is exactly why just having a faster car does not mean it's the better car if you have reliabiity issues.

Didn't Webber have a grid drop in Hockenheim, Spa and Hungary? Not to mention his qualifying problems in both the Spannish races, all of which compromised his weekends.

[mnmracer]

[This would only be a valid point] if he could jump around at will, and only be in Lotus in races like Bahrain and Hungary. But then, so would Vettel have already been WDC if he had a Ferrari in Spain or Monza.

NOW do you understand?

Yes it's a stupid comment. (2 in a row for you now, well done)

What Pique is trying to saying is that the Lotus has been capable of winning multiple races over the course of the entire season and that the drivers have underperformed. A very simple concept to understand.

Thus his comment about the Lotus's and Sauber's

"is it the car or the driver?"

No need to start a yapfest about putting this and that driver in this and that car on this and that day......

It's simple.

Alonso + Lotus's 2012 car over the course of this season = WDC Title, according to Pique.

Wow, you really do have mental problems understanding (either in reading between the lines or you just want to twist my words to argue). And then you're the one talking about understanding concepts

Ok, let me spell it out for you:
It is my opinion that it is bullshit to claim that Alonso would have been champion right now if he was in a Lotus.
The only way being in the Lotus would have made Alonso a champion is in the fictional scenario in which he had raced the Lotus in Bahrain and Hungary.

NOW do you understand?
NOW can you stop twisting my words?

[mnmracer]

Bizarre, really, especially given that Vettel only re-overtook Webber in the standings post-Belgium. Absolutely bizarre.

Vettel was faster for all bar 3 races, yet was behind Webber after 11 races. Why? Reliability.

11 races - 3 in which Webber was faster = 8 races.
So just 2 DNFs, and it took 6 to get even.

This is exactly why just having a faster car does not mean it's the better car if you have reliabiity issues.

Didn't Webber have a grid drop in Hockenheim, Spa and Hungary? Not to mention his qualifying problems in both the Spannish races, all of which compromised his weekends.

Yes in Hockenheim and Spa. In Hungary he simply lacked the speed.
Yet despite those 5 qualifying issues, he was ahead of Vettel prior to Spa, because he was at least able to finish. That's also a clear parallel to Ferrari: they may have issues in qualifying, but in the race, when the points are up for grabs, they're right there.

[raymondu999]

understand that this aint autosport forums.

To be fair - understand that this ain't F1 past-driver-opinions forums either.

Note: this comment is made independent of your argument with mnmracer