Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
mep wrote:
I say you one thing Alonso has a strange character
or how can you explain me allways those stupid dancing after
a victory which he hasn't earned.
I don't agree with this, whether he has earned it or not is a different matter, but we can't critisize drivers for being robots and showing no personality and then critisize them when they do. It's the same with Kimi liking the odd night out on the town.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-
Manchild, I feel like part of your reply is rather making my point.
You said I was "blaming one of the best ever to justify actions of the worst ever." That's not what I was doing. I was using Senna as an example of how two drivers can have similar characteristics, yet have different perceptions from the public because of their personality.
Senna spoke of racing with religious conviction. He spoke of it in terms that inspired those who heard him. I remember you saying once that just looking at him calmed you. It's because he tapped into the part of you deep down that makes you love Formula 1 racing. He grabbed you. And that colors your opinion. And that's ok.
Michael Schumacher, on the other hand, is a robot. He speaks in calculated, technical terms. He goes about his business very methodically, and that doesn't really inspire anyone. In fact, I believe his manner turns many people off, especially when that's contrasted with how happy he is when he wins a race. It just doesn't seem right. If you're not a fan of that, it's damn hard to see someone with that personality win over and over and over again. It also doesn't help matters when the entire Ferrari team seems just as cold and calculating. And that, too, colors your opinion. That that, too, is ok.
That's the whole point I was making. It's all about perception. I wasn't "blaming" anyone. You see it that way because you're protective of Senna due to how he made you feel. Like I said, that's ok.
I want to get fully into how the 1994 incident with Hill was merely a racing incident (Schu had hit the wall a mere few seconds before hitting Hill, and he only hit Hill because his car was still unstable from the contact), but the race is about to start, and I'm not going to miss it.
bhallg2k wrote:I want to get fully into how the 1994 incident with Hill was merely a racing incident (Schu had hit the wall a mere few seconds before hitting Hill, and he only hit Hill because his car was still unstable from the contact)
I think you are the only person who see's it that way.
bhallg2k wrote:I want to get fully into how the 1994 incident with Hill was merely a racing incident (Schu had hit the wall a mere few seconds before hitting Hill, and he only hit Hill because his car was still unstable from the contact)
I think you are the only person who see's it that way.
Damn right...... I blame Damon. Night all.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-
Come on guys, this should be a day to remember all the great things MS has done, and they are numerouse too. He did not win 7 titles through cheating, it can't be done, it took alot of skill too.
Tommorrow we can be thankful that he's gone and bitch about him, but today we should celebrate a great career and a brilliant end.
I don't like him (as a driver at least), but it seems unfair to ruin this day for him, when he felt bad lucks bite repeatedly and comes back from it so admarably, with great overtaking moves and complete fairness, he deserves our support today. Thats why my avatar was not a reminder of the past, but instead an example of a person on the highest high through his own achievements.
Please take heed of this and be kind
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
TITLES-7
MOST WINS-91
MOST WINS IN A SINGLE SEASON-13-2004
MOST SECOND PLACES-43
MOST LAPS IN THE LEAD-5096
MOST POINTS IN A SINGLE SEASON-148-2004
MOST PODIUMS-154
MOST WINS FROM POLE POSITION-40
MOST HAT-TRICKS/POLE/WINS/FASTEST LAP-22
MOST SUCCESSIVE RACES IN THE POINTS-24-2001-2003
MOST SUCCESSIVE PODIUMS-19-2001-2002
I've had my share of poking Michael with a sharp stick, but as my coach taught me, there's a time to cry, and time not to rain on the other person's parade.
Michael Schumacher will retire on the top of his game, a man who displayed the strongest determination and strength of character. As younger fans of Shu learn more of his entire history, he took a forlorn team, and made a solemn promise to take it to the top. It took a few years, and the rebuilding of an entire team, but the team he now hands over is definitely one of the major powerhouses in Formula One.
This is not the time to focus on his negative aspects, but the positive attributes he has displayed. First and foremost, his determination not to give up, never surrender. His physical and mental conditioning, something that he has maintained each and every year. Getting to the top is one thing, but to remain king of the mountain is always the most difficult chore.
Michael has completely rewritten the standards for driver performance. From qualifying, to out laps, to knowing how to bring it home, he raised the bar. He was the complete package, and personalities notwithstanding, most likely every team owner would have dropped anything and everything if they could have secured his services. He was that good.
Personally, I've seen a lot of racing, and a lot of racers. Some have been duds, some have been poseurs. Others have been interesting, many exciting. Others have streaked across the sky like bring comets, lighing up the firmament with their bright light. But none have been such a pervasive dominance like Michael Schumacher. He most likely will go down in history as the most successful professional race driver of all time.
To quote a pro wrestler, "to be the man, you have to beat the man".
He was the man, he was that good.
The diffrenece between Suzuka 1990 and 1997 is enormous. Prost and Senna had their clash in 1989 nad what Senna did wasn't good but it was pre-announced payback since Prost had responsibilty of Senna loosing WDC in 1989. Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve haven't done anything to Schuey in previous season and what Schuey did wasn't a payback but premeditated action do get rid of rivals he wasn't able to beat fairly. Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve were innocent victims while Prost wasn't. Not to mention that Senna and Prost were teammates in 1989 when first incident happened.
You know, If you were to tried MS for what he did to JV or DH, he'd probably get a manslaughter or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is usually done for a split moment thing. In MS's case he has something to gain so he probably would get it for 2nd degree. I highly doubt that MS decided to do that before those points of the race when he commits it. Just like he probably did not think he needs to park his car at La Rasscasse when going into the Q3 this year at Monaco.
But in Senna's case, he'd get 1st degree, because that was PREMEDITATED, he even admits it by "warning" the rival first. He has a motive and a plan going in. And he commits it.
I find that one would so willingly accept this without much questioning and yet be so critical of the other....
Does that makes it ok for someone to intentionally hurt someone, or rams him off the track, if he said " I am going to do it!" first?
Senna didn't say that he'll knock out Prost regardless on what happens but if FIA puts him in worst place on the grid even though he won pole position. Don't forget that FIA changed its mind over the night. If he was on place of the grid that really gives the advantage he wouldn't have done it.
Pole position winner must have better grid position than 2nd relative on first turn and FIA has put Senna in P2 even though he won pole position.
Compare 1990 and 2006. Massa as pole position winner started from left side of the track while in 1990 Senna was forced to start from right which is huge disadvantage. I'm not saying that his move was good but if it was dirty than it was apropriate reply on dirty move FIA played on him.
Admitadly that was a factor, but at the end of the day there was no reason to take Prost out, it was not him who'd forced Senna to the wrong side.
It could be argued that if Senna really had it to beat Prost he would have got a perfect start regardles, looking at that picture I would suggest that Senna is so far back it was more than just a dirty line but Prost actually got a better start. I believe Porst would have overtaken Senna at some point in the race anyway, but it can be argued each wa.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
Yes, I have little doubt that if MS hadn't had a puncture he would have won, or at least come second to Massa fair and squre. I don't think Massa would have let MS through unless Alonso retired but MS would have tried to stick one up the inside into turn 1.
The main difference between the 2 incidents were teammates though. Neither Prost nor Senna had a team mate to hold the others up, a factor which was used regularely in this season.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
Tom wrote:Yes, I have little doubt that if MS hadn't had a puncture he would have won, or at least come second to Massa fair and squre. I don't think Massa would have let MS through unless Alonso retired but MS would have tried to stick one up the inside into turn 1.
The main difference between the 2 incidents were teammates though. Neither Prost nor Senna had a team mate to hold the others up, a factor which was used regularely in this season.
just because the style of racing has changed doesnt mean its any less of an accomplishment you can nolonger be teh fastest guy on the grid and win you need team work
