What other drivers would have also overtaken Webber?

[spadeflush]

isn´t it just fantastic that a Webber /Vettel incident can bring up totally false accusations towards Schumacher who is retired already?

Another thread that gives ppl chance to malign schumacher

[mep]

isn´t it just fantastic that a Webber /Vettel incident can bring up totally false accusations towards Schumacher who is retired already?
the ones claiming he EVER did something like that towards a teammate -ignoring team orders on purpose - may please so kind and enlighten us when this happened.i cannot rememnber any incident were he actively acted against orders from the team ...save his stampede against Coulthard in the Spa pits after colliding on track.

Schumacher certainly had or has his own set of facets in his character i would not subscribe to but first and most of all he did everything for the team and doing this he helped himself of course.

I think the teams should fill up their cars enough to allow their drivers to push till the end .The modern area shortfueling in hope of a procession race with a Safetycar phase is laying the ground for these artificial hold stationary scenarios ..for little gain in the race.But you need a justification for employment of those race strategists methinks ...

I absolutely agree with this.
Even though I voted myself for Schumacher, Alonso, and Senna, which might have been a mistake. If I think back I can remember many races where Schumacher was just following patiently his teammate to give him a victory.
However, I don't think Vettel made a mistake in overtaking Webber. This fight in this season will be very close until the last race and the few points gained here can make a difference for him in the end. It is this kind of thinking you need during your whole life to get into a top position and to keep it in such a highly competitive businesses. Having always the ultimately victory at the end of the year in your mind is what will bring you there. It is a fight from the first till the last second. One of the first things you need to win is the position in the team. Guys like Schumacher, Alonso, Senna and apparently Vettel as well know that. That is what makes the difference between a decent F1 driver and the absolutely best which become Champion several times and will be remembered forever for the things they did. These guys are born with a hard fighting nature and get drilled to be competitive from early age on. That is why I voted for them. Not because I think they would have done the same but because I think they have the ultimately fighting spirit.

As sad as it is for Webber but realistically has Vettel the much higher chance to be successful in the end. The repeatedly bad start of Webber at the Melbourne GP showed that just once again. Psychologically, I think it is a normal reaction that the sympathy is on the side of the Webbers, Massas and Barrichelos of this world. They are the underdogs suffering under their über competitive teammates. Most people feel sympathy to them because it might remind them of their own life, where others are repeatedly more successful. On the other side, constantly successful guys like Schumacher and Vettel get hated. When Vettel came up I thought he would not get hated so much as Schumacher because he seemed to be much friendlier and open whereas Schumacher was super focused like a machine. But it seems I was wrong. I noticed before that people start to hate Vettel more and more. That can only be explained by the success Vettel had because so far there where little incidents which would justify to hate Vettel.

[PlatinumZealot]

Wow...
I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11, but for some reason the whole F1 circus is imploding because Vettel gave the viewers a race rather than a progression.

Thinking back to a certain driver who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win", it got me thinking, what other drivers would have also gone for the win in this situation?

Its Hypocrital of Vettel because Vettel has always been the beneficiary of team orders, even calling for the team to move Mark out the way, but when team orders benefit Webber, Vettel totally ignores them. That fact that Vettel has always calling for team orders like a whinging little girl, makes him uncomparable to the likes of Aryton Senna who you have in your list.

[Nando]

I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11,

Can you remind everyone what happened at Silverstone 2011? and then with a straight face say Webber ignored the team order.

They way you word it is what a magazine would do to twist something to their favor.

[Nando]

If that had been Lewis and Fernando towards the end of 2007, they would have both made the move.

this is not true. Hamilton was told not to challenge Alonso in Monaco and he stayed put.

Edit: as someone pointed out you said towards the end. I´m on the fence on that one for now.
I know there was a lot of friction and even some qualifying stuff that went on but not sure they would have just ignored the team completely,


Also missing the option "NOBODY" in the poll.

[Juzh]

Wow...
I can't remember there being so much drama after Webber ignored teamorders in Silverstone '11, but for some reason the whole F1 circus is imploding because Vettel gave the viewers a race rather than a progression.

Thinking back to a certain driver who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win", it got me thinking, what other drivers would have also gone for the win in this situation?

Its Hypocrital of Vettel because Vettel has always been the beneficiary of team orders, even calling for the team to move Mark out the way, but when team orders benefit Webber, Vettel totally ignores them. That fact that Vettel has always calling for team orders like a whinging little girl, makes him uncomparable to the likes of Aryton Senna who you have in your list.

You igorned mnmracer completely about webber in silverstone 2011 or his blocking in brasil last year.

[Nando]

You igorned mnmracer completely about webber in silverstone 2011 or his blocking in brasil last year.

No you and mnmracer ignore the fact that webber OBEYED team orders in Silverstone 2011.

1. Alonso
2. +16,5s Vettel
3. +16.9s Webber

This result would have been impossible if Webber disobeyed team orders.

This is a propaganda-thread.

[kledaras]

What Vettel essentially did was put the first torpedo into Webber's chances of fighting for the WDC.

What Vettel did was put a torpedo in his chances of Webber helping later in the season. If Vettel needs Webber to hold someone up or get out of the way in order to secure the title he'll find Webber's radio isn't working all of a sudden.

If Vettel really believed he could beat Webber by his own talent alone, he'd have banked today's second with a sly "Mark owes me today" over the radio. Mark would then be in the position of being expected to help out when needed. Now? Vettel is racing the rest of the season without a tail gunner. Good luck sonny.

Right, like helping him in brasil'12 at the start?

[turbof1]

If that had been Lewis and Fernando towards the end of 2007, they would have both made the move.

this is not true. Hamilton was told not to challenge Alonso in Monaco and he stayed put.

Also missing the option "NOBODY" in the poll.

I was to make the same comment, but he stated "towards the end of 2007". I sadly agree with that statement; there was absolutely no respect between those 2 anymore at that point.

[ChrisF1]

If that had been Lewis and Fernando towards the end of 2007, they would have both made the move.

this is not true. Hamilton was told not to challenge Alonso in Monaco and he stayed put.

Also missing the option "NOBODY" in the poll.

I was to make the same comment, but he stated "towards the end of 2007". I sadly agree with that statement; there was absolutely no respect between those 2 anymore at that point.

Yes, when things were amicable between the pair it was all team first, driver second. As we saw later in the year, Hungary for example, the drivers were thinking about themselves and not the team.

I don't think it reflects on either driver now though, as we are 5 seasons on and I think both drivers have learnt a lot since that season.

[Juzh]

You igorned mnmracer completely about webber in silverstone 2011 or his blocking in brasil last year.

No you and mnmracer ignore the fact that webber OBEYED team orders in Silverstone 2011.

1. Alonso
2. +16,5s Vettel
3. +16.9s Webber

This result would have been impossible if Webber disobeyed team orders.

This is a propaganda-thread.

He stayed put because he was unable to overtake him. He wanted to and tryed with his intentions 100% clear. He even confirmed it after the race.

[LionKing]

You igorned mnmracer completely about webber in silverstone 2011 or his blocking in brasil last year.

No you and mnmracer ignore the fact that webber OBEYED team orders in Silverstone 2011.

1. Alonso
2. +16,5s Vettel
3. +16.9s Webber

This result would have been impossible if Webber disobeyed team orders.

This is a propaganda-thread.

He stayed put because he was unable to overtake him. He wanted to and tryed with his intentions 100% clear. He even confirmed it after the race.

Exactly!

The gap between Vettel and Webber was down to 1.02 seconds at the beginning of the penultimate lap. That basically gave Webber only shot at the end of that penultimate lap into T1 but he couldn't pass Vettel. Silverstone is a very difficult place to pass even with DRS. Micheal followed someone last year for about 6-7 laps before making the move stick into turn one.

This is from 2011 Silverstone:
Lap Vettel Webber Lap-Delta Gap
47 1:36.826 [2] 1:36.241 [3] +0.585 -4.110
48 1:36.782 [2] 1:35.843 [3] +0.939 -3.171
49 1:36.738 [2] 1:35.665 [3] +1.073 -2.098
50 1:37.039 [2] 1:35.968 [3] +1.071 -1.027
51 1:38.385 [2] 1:37.879 [3] +0.506 -0.521
52 1:38.521 [2] 1:38.436 [3] +0.085 -0.436

Secondly if you had read Webber's comment after that race, You would have known that of course he ignored the orders. He also added that if something happens to Alonso in the final lap, there are basically fighting for the win!

If I remember correctly people were applauding Webber for ignoring the order at that time Considering Silverstone 2011, I don't think anyone of Vettel and Webber have the moral high ground now. Both of them ignored the orders. Only difference is Webber failed to pass Vettel in that short window of opportunity he got....

[mnmracer]

It is just shameful how some people are so desperate about slanting their devil driver, that they resort to lying.

[Hail22]

.

why, just because VET acted like Senna and some can't handle that.

1. Different Era
2. Ayrton Senna didn't go on a radio and say "Hey guys tell Alain to move for me because he's going too slow"

If Senna realised someone was intentionally holding him, he would use every square inch of his car to squeeze him past his target...he wouldn't jump on a radio requesting the driver to move aside.

Vettel nor anyone in this era of motorsport (2007-current) can even scratch the surface in comparison to racers such as Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Gilles Villeneuve, Barrichello etc etc etc. It was a different time, different politics, different attitudes, different formula (there was no such thing as tyre management for them...it was "just race to win and if the tyres fall off so what!"

[theblackangus]

why, just because VET acted like Senna and some can't handle that.

I never saw Senna kick a man while he was down, to take advantage of an unfair situation.
He may have done some tough things with Prost, but they were on equal footing when they were done.

Those of you that compare Vettel to Senna seem to have a lack of understanding of the prost/senna situations.

Senna was noble man, and many will attest to that. Vettel showed his character long ago when making fun of Nick Heidfields speech impediment. Seb revels in kicking a man when he's down.

His actions speak volumes, and his words are hollow.

Apparently there are many people around here who love supporting a bully.