Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

What do you want!

F1 with 2012 tyres / without DRS
2
4%
F1 with 2012 tyres with 2013 compounds / without DRS
0
No votes
F1 with 2013 tyres as they are / without DRS
6
11%
F1 with 2013 tyres modiefied for hard racing, even if it lead to processions / without DRS
4
8%
F1 with 2010 tyres / without DRS
15
28%
F1 with 2012 tyres and DRS
4
8%
F1 with 2012 tyres with 2013 compounds and DRS
1
2%
F1 with 2013 tyresas they are and DRS
10
19%
F1 with 2013 tyres modiefied for hard racing, even if it lead to processions and DRS
1
2%
F1 with 2010 tyres and DRS
10
19%
 
Total votes: 53

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FrukostScones
163
Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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If the made the statement like this it is an utter disgrace.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107415
I think they should give us a "processional" tyre I think DRS will sort the justified rest.
At first I thought the Jelly Pirelli Lotterelli was fun, but this 2013 tyres are really a desaster... they are too fragile, they tread comes off if you lock the brakes etc.
that is really not racing....

AMUS reports that Pirelli will soon decide whether they bring back the 2012 construction with this years compounds or they modify this years construction and will go for harder compounds.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 55120.html
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

TzeiTzei
TzeiTzei
5
Joined: 09 Mar 2011, 21:19

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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They should absolutely not change the tyres in the middle of the season. Their job is to deliver the tyres and the teams' job is to get on top of them. I'm getting bored with all this talk about the tyres. Sour grapes etc.

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ecapox
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Joined: 14 May 2010, 21:06

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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Paul is 100% spot on.

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Bob Brown
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Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 05:20

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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ecapox wrote:Paul is 100% spot on.
I agree.
=D>
Last race showed there are 2 ways to go about it. Red Bull needs to shut up and drive. If backmarkers can make it work, why can't the returning champions?

NowyszRacing6
NowyszRacing6
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Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 07:55

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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This article brings up an important point: these tires make it hard for a team to put a lot of downforce on the car, because higher loads put more heat/degradation in the tires. We have known that the drivers arent pushing 100% for a lot of the race, because driving any car that way will eat up the tires due to the extra surface wear and heat. So there are sort of 2 ways to over-use a tire, basically by car setup and by driving hard.

What if they could just make the tires so that the construction supports only a certain amount of downforce without losing performance, but the surface is nice and durable so that drivers can go all out? That way, the teams would have to put the "right amount" of downforce on the car, not just spend millions of dollars to add more, more, more all the time. This might be able to keep car performance more equal between teams, and then drivers can use all their skill to make it go fast in the race. I don't know enough about tires to know if something like that would work, but maybe it could be a solution if it did. I'm actually glad to hear red bull complaining about the tires, because that helps draw attention to the fact that all the performance of the DRIVERS is not able to be used. In terms of what the TEAM can do though, i think they should realize that with these tires they just need to design the car a different way to make them work, and that's their challenge.

LHamilton
LHamilton
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Joined: 23 Jun 2012, 15:40

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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I think we need some changes regarding the tyres. Here is what we should do, in my opinion;

First and foremost, we should make it mandatory to make 2 stops instead of 1. I think most of us thinks 2 stops is fair enough. Its not to much and the mechanics within the team likes the pressure of pitstops and strategy can be made by the teams.

We should also have three different tyres in every race, instead of just two. However, you should get one set of the harder tyre, two sets of the mediums and three sets of the softs, making it 6 sets of tyres, the same amount we currently have. Why not just two of each? Well, if we look at previous races, all of the teams goes on to the softest tyre possible in Q2. If we would have had two softs, then we would only have one "brandspanking" new tyre in Q3 and probably just one run in Q3 for pole. Instead, we get three softs, and let the teams have the possibility of two Q3 runs, as of today.
The hardest tyre should be VERY durable, but rather slow. So hard that the top teams doesnt really get an disadvantage running with them in Q1. Perhaps a tyre that could make it throughout the whole race.
The soft tyre should be somewhat of what we have with these pirellis. Really fast, but wears out fast as well.
The mediums, obviously, should be a mixture of the softs and the harder tyre.

With three different compounds, we have an opportunity with different strategies, but also just 2 stops. Hopefully.

When it comes to the difference between each compound, the idea for race strategies would be if you qualify with softs and go on to softs again for your first stint, you would then have to go on to the harder tyres to make a 2 stop work. Or if you go on to the mediums for the first stop, you could go on to the mediums again for you final stop, to make a 2 stop work.

So it would be Softs-Softs-Hard and Softs-Mediums-Mediums

Its good in theory, and i think it could be doable.

Sorry for any wrong-spelling or other grammar within the text. English isnt my native language :)

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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Or they could drive with the tires they have. The same way they build the engines with the fuel allowed.

Sombrero
Sombrero
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 20:18

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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Leave us alone...

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FrukostScones
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Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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I find it interesting that the 2013 is preferred by a lot, when this tyre has an inherent design flaw. 2012 tyre would do it. And didn't the 2012 tyres where altered mid-season?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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NowyszRacing6 wrote:[...]

What if they could just make the tires so that the construction supports only a certain amount of downforce without losing performance, but the surface is nice and durable so that drivers can go all out?

[...]
This is precisely what the tires are like right now.

Robbobnob
Robbobnob
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 04:03
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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My concern is the de-laminations.

Imagine an incident like that happening through 130R or Eau Rouge, it doesnt take a wild imagination to understand that these failures must not happen again!

The actual degradation of the tyres is something I am fine with as it is the same for everyone, except maybe Lotus because they were developed on a platform in which lotus completely understood and can conceivably be applied to their current car.
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitations, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." - Ayrton Senna

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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If their only response to this imo very valid criticism is:
Well you can either have every race dominated by the fastest drivers/cars on a racing track trundling around in what looks like a race, but isn't really, as well as random delaminations ruining drivers weekends multiple times. Or you can have processions.
Then they need to step aside and let someone else have a shot.

Its like the many people watching who are saying they don't like the current solution are being held ransom by the fact that at some point in the past the races were more processional via Ferrari/Schumi.

Its pretty much admitting that they have no other ideas or plan of doing things.

TzeiTzei
TzeiTzei
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Joined: 09 Mar 2011, 21:19

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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Robbobnob wrote:My concern is the de-laminations.

Imagine an incident like that happening through 130R or Eau Rouge, it doesnt take a wild imagination to understand that these failures must not happen again!
Isn't this the same scenario that a driver would suffer a puncture in 130R or Eau Rouge? I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre, which previously would have led to a puncture, but now with the new structure the result is de-lamination.

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FrukostScones
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Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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TzeiTzei wrote:
Robbobnob wrote:My concern is the de-laminations.

Imagine an incident like that happening through 130R or Eau Rouge, it doesnt take a wild imagination to understand that these failures must not happen again!
Isn't this the same scenario that a driver would suffer a puncture in 130R or Eau Rouge? I mean, de-lamination is a consequence of a cut in the tyre, which previously would have led to a puncture, but now with the new structure the result is de-lamination.
I doubt that this is the explanation. It is the steel band construction that leads to this sudden delamination due to overheating / internal layer separation. After the failure it is relative safe because only the treads flys away but the tyre stays relatively inflated.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

muhammadtalha-13
muhammadtalha-13
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Joined: 15 Mar 2013, 12:42

Re: Pirelli says it will help bring back boring processions

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I think next year, 2010 tyres with no DRS will be ok because next year with turbo engines, strategy and overtakes will be fine depending on how teams use turbo and KERS or MGUH or whatever it is.