2014 season: how would it be?

[SectorOne]

Lucky how? Please elaborate.

In almost every conceivable way. Oh i rather not on behalf of a thread the guy before me decided to have a go at crashing with some fanboy talk out of thin air. Everyone(including me) had their opinions then someone had to challenge them when their best driver was not considered the best. (you and jonnycraig)

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Some interesting comments from Button,

"It's about getting an understanding of the power unit and how we are going to put the power down, because it's not going to be easy. There's going to be a lot of simulator work and running through other things that are going to help us put the power down, because I don't think any of us are used to having torque. I've raced for 14 years in F1 and I've never had torque so it's going to be a new experience.

"In reality I think it will be easier than in the simulator. The initial oversteer is very difficult to feel in the simulator - that initial feeling that you get through your bum in a race car. I think it will be easier in reality but we're going to find it tough. In high speed corners you're off power for so long and you just can't get the power down. You're waiting the whole time. It's not like now with so much downforce and so little torque that you can just floor it and even if you run a bit wide you just understeer off the circuit. But with the 2014 car if you floor it in a corner like Turn 3 at Barcelona, you don't just drive off, you immediately lose the rear because there is so much torque. It's not a balance issue, you have torque and we've never had that before.

"I don't think it will be more exciting to drive. We are going to be fighting for grip the whole time, so I don't think that will make it more exciting."

Asked if that would detract from the enjoyment of F1, he said: "If you've got a quick car it won't [be less enjoyable], because you'll still be fighting at the front. I think over a qualifying lap you might not get such a buzz, unless you've put it on pole. The racing will still be exciting, but I think it will be more close and there will be more fighting. There is a lot anyway but the way the cars will be, with less downforce, harder tyres and more torque, you'll get close racing a bit like GP2 because it will be so much easier to make a mistake."


Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... I12BwZd.99

[Juzh]

Someone explain this to me. 2014 turbo cars compared to 80s turbos have less power, less torque, still way more DF, probably tyres with more grip and yet everyone is complaining like they're gonna drive some uncontrollable rocketships.

[Blanchimont]

So, even Button believes in the somuchtorquein2014nonsense?

Or am i wrong with my assumption that the rear wheel torque will not be higher than with the V8 engines?

[beelsebob]

Someone explain this to me. 2014 turbo cars compared to 80s turbos have less power, less torque, still way more DF, probably tyres with more grip and yet everyone is complaining like they're gonna drive some uncontrollable rocketships.

Because the current cars are controllable rocket ships.

[Richard]

Some interesting comments from Button,

"you just can't get the power down. You're waiting the whole time. ...you immediately lose the rear .... it will be so much easier to make a mistake."

[-o<

So hopefully more cars on the limit? That will sort the men from the boys.

[SectorOne]

drifting around Monaco [-o<

[Juzh]

Someone explain this to me. 2014 turbo cars compared to 80s turbos have less power, less torque, still way more DF, probably tyres with more grip and yet everyone is complaining like they're gonna drive some uncontrollable rocketships.

Because the current cars are controllable rocket ships.

They are controllable, but they're certainly not rocket ships.

[Manoah2u]

Someone explain this to me. 2014 turbo cars compared to 80s turbos have less power, less torque, still way more DF, probably tyres with more grip and yet everyone is complaining like they're gonna drive some uncontrollable rocketships.

80's F1 and 2014 F1 are worlds apart. You can't compare it. All they have in common are they have 4 wheels and wings.
That's it.

Not even the engine is the same. Turbo engines of today are completely differently approached. The materials, the
regulations, etc. They're not near the mighty 1200 BHP mclaren of old, but that doesn't mean they don't have significant
difference in practicability. A 2013 Merc V8 is different from a 2013 Renault V8 in both power and usability, imagine the
[died] cosworth v8 of 2012. If 2012 V8's differ so much, obviously 80's V6T's are miles apart from 2014 V6T's.

You can step into any 80s turbo car versus a modern turbo car to see the difference between your average roadcar,
imagine the difference to full-spec high-tech F1 engines?

The cars have a very different structural design, from the wishbone to the monocoque, from the carbon material used
to the the wings, to the width of the cars to the height, etc.
Add to that the ERS which generates loads of torque instantly available, and it's not even the same anymore.

And yes, they're rocketships if you realise just what exotic materials they're using, and the amount of computers and data and sophisticality is used and needed to get these things up to speed. F1 drivers are more athletic then olympic sporters and footballers, thats for a reason. The f1 driver really is a pilot today, with all the gadgets they'll have to operate during a single lap, constantly flipping switches, balance, etc. And if your team gives you a f-duct car where you also need to use your hands or body to operate that, it becomes even more advanced.

positioning your car 1 mm more to the left on track during qualy might mean pole or 3rd. The level of competition and level of technologic influence is without compare if you look at the 80s.

And that's not even touching things like the tracks, DRS, mandatory tire changes, etc etc etc.

F1 1980 and F1 2014 are not the same. That's why it's still exciting and F1 still excists. because it changes over time.

[Jonnycraig]

drifting around Monaco [-o<

Unfortunately it's more likely to again be driving a bus to the shops in Monaco.

[kooleracer]

I think next season the best driver will win,

Yet you have the best driver finishing second.

I don't think Vettel is the best driver. Thats why he isn't on the top spot in my list. But thats is my personal opinion. Don't forget its my assesment, not yours or anyone elses. If you don't agree thats your opinion.

[henra]

Or am i wrong with my assumption that the rear wheel torque will not be higher than with the V8 engines?

The max torque at the wheel will not be that much higher but it will set in at much lower RPM.
At the moment the torque at 2/3 max RPM (12000) will be only a fraction of the torque at 90% max RPM. In future already at 2/3 max RPM max torque should be available. The Electric Motors of the ERS will compound to that problem with their inverse torque characteristics.
At the moment drivers can select a gear such that they can accelerate full out of the turn without having max torque at the apex. When exiting the turn RPM will increase to the point where max power/max torque is available once they are aligned for the subsequent straight. When done right they have full exhaust blwoing with only so much torque the tyres can take in the exit of the turn.
They will thus have to adapt their driving styles significantly. It will take some learing and we might se some cool drifts at the exits of turns at least at the beginning.
On the plus side I see some benefit for the lap times as the integral of the power over the used RPM range will be comparartively higher. Today when during gear shift RPM drops from 18000 to 15000 RPM the resulting HP loss willl be signifcant. In future the loss of HP when shifting to a higher gear will be reduced due to the flatter torque/HP characteristic.

[godlameroso]

It will be similar to driving a diesel LMP car minus traction control, you have to have a lot more part throttle finesse than the current cars. It's more like a dance, and yes its a bit frustrating to drive this way especially if you have to adapt. Furthermore the fact that the cars are turbo will induce some lag, it won't be instant response like the now defunct atmospheric engines. They won't be anywhere near as bad as the late 80's cars but they won't have instant response. The best driving technique is not going to be apparent right away, I'm guessing it's going to be at least half way through the season before someone figures it out and starts to pull away a bit. I think Australia is going to be a very interesting race as the track itself is very slippery, couple this with the almost flat effective torque band and it's going to be very challenging indeed.

[Daliracing]

Will Ricciardo be succesfull in the Red Bull? just that he can keep up at the front of the grid

[Kiril Varbanov]

drifting around Monaco [-o<

Just got back from Monaco. I did the track walk during the night, and this is the most claustrophobic place in the world

Seriously, joking aside, the streets are extremely narrow. I did a piece for TopGear, heavily criticizing the track and putting emphasize on the need for re-shape. This is very unlikely to happen, though, so drift there would mean destroying some beautiful buildings.

On the 2014 season - speaking pragmatically and extrapolating on the current status quo, I can tell that - behold the depth of my mind - Red Bull are going to be leading the pack.

The commonly accepted wisdom says that you cannot unlearn something that you know, and the practices they have, along with the personnel, tools and the approach as a whole should give them the leading edge. Unless Renault screws the powertrains big time.

[Mandrake]

It will be similar to driving a diesel LMP car minus traction control, you have to have a lot more part throttle finesse than the current cars. It's more like a dance, and yes its a bit frustrating to drive this way especially if you have to adapt.

I think this is the way it should be. Being able to floor the pedal everywhere is not really a challenge. Being forced to modulate the throttle is where drivers will begin to show what they're worth again. I feel that drivers prefering a stable rear end or understeering car will struggle next season, whereas drivers like Hamilton or Vettel, prefering a looser rear end, will start better into the season.