F you Bernie! from the USA

[dumrick]

The USA is a very large and rather new target group for F1

Really? Tomba, do you realize that 30 years ago there were 2 US GP's per season?

The real issue is that selling F1 events has become easy money .. many of the new F1 races are used for creating specticales for governments to use as PR instead of creating world championship motor races. This is not growing F1, it's cashing in on F1 in a way that will cost F1 in the future.

That's exactly the point. A venue is now only considered by the profit that can be made out of it. Do you think that ticket sales or local TV coverage mean that much in the money they make from a GP? No, there's a reasonably steady worldwide viewer basis throughout the whole season. Their oportunity to make extra cash is to find organizers willing to pay huge sums to have a race. For the time being, they still try to keep some traditional venues, by tradition. These are sold at discount rates. But their greediness doesn't assure that things will remain that way. Anyway, no government in Europe or in most ocidental countries can justify to the tax payers the expense of huge sums to hold a GP. That way, Dubai, Bahrein, Malaysia, China come into the scene...

[wrk]

hey keep us Aussies out of it..... were so far away from all the action we would watch two cockroches race across the kitchen floor.....

[dumrick]

hey keep us Aussies out of it..... were so far away from all the action we would watch two cockroches race across the kitchen floor.....

Sorry, I forgot you guys!!!! I would never put you guys along with the countries I mentioned, despite the geographical proximity. You have your own very interesting racing traditions and you like F1... what more could one ask for...?

[BreezyRacer]

hey keep us Aussies out of it..... were so far away from all the action we would watch two cockroches race across the kitchen floor.....

Yes, well you guys still have an F1 race. Imagine what we'll all be saying about you when you lose yours too! Your IQ will also drop 30 points .. does that give you a negative number??? Just funning, I love you Aussies .. really!

[modbaraban]

Yes, well you guys still have an F1 race. Imagine what we'll all be saying about you when you lose yours too! Your IQ will also drop 30 points .. does that give you a negative number??? Just funning, I love you Aussies .. really!

Erm... do you happen to have any data on the IQ rize in Bahrain, China and Turkey lately?!

[Militia Est Vita]

Well, must say that the news was truly dissapointing. I'm also of the opinion that it is not that Americans dont like F1 or they like Nascar Better. This has to be all political dog crap from Bernie and his affair with Asia and Middle East. At this stages it wouldn't surprise me that at some point some Arabs buy F1 off from Bernie and strip not only america from F1 but Europe as well

[SZ]

lots of inflammatory crap in this post both ways, shame to see.

i'm only sorry it took bernie and co 8 tries to realise you can't put the essence of indy in f1 just by hosting an f1 race over, and over, and over again.

ray i wouldn't piss on the american stereotypes, without them there's not nearly enough marketing data to have native racing series going so well over your way. whilst they're not entirely untrue, i'll throw another in there. americans - for those that haven't visited, go - are an unbelievably warm, friendly, welcoming people (particularly down south... that whole 'southern courtesy' thing is... quite nice actually).

and we can say what we want about NASCAR. IMHO the cars look like blinged up taxis and whilst the whole proposition on paper looks fairly ridiculous... the racing IS currently more exciting than f1.

i'll dare anyone to prove it otherwise.

for sure f1 had two races in the states years ago. it was MARKETABLE to america. there were some serious characters in f1, some epic battles. today the racers are run before they start and won in the pits. the drivers are allowed to be about as exciting/communicative as cardboard. the only personalities in f1 recently came to light in an industrial espionage case... which is currently more exciting than the racing.

that's miserable.

you'd have to be an formula racing freak to want to pay to watch one if american. the racing offers as much excitement as staring at a gas station for two hours. even if the racing goes to vegas, is under lights, they have pornstars for grid girls, lewis wins from fernando who gives a press conference through his teeth etc... you'll be hard pressed for your average US punter to wonder what the hell was so exciting about the race - for starters. the general impression may be 'i don't get what the big deal is'. the personalities involved are considered cold which just doesn't gel with a very open culture. there are already a few established racing series in the US that have real competition, are more personable and accessible. so they're not f1, but if you're not on these forums then you're in the 99.99% of people in the US that aren't going to consider passing on something very good just because f1 comes to town.

and at the end of the day you can excuse the rest of the spectacle if there's real racing. if you have it and more you create legends. imagine the motogp circus at indy - they could have a single american rider in the class on a grid of 24 bikes and still do well. there's passing, there's great rivalries, there are huge, accessible, unique personalities, there are up-and-comers with a real shot at stealing the show, there are relevant manufacturers. unless there's an indygate again, people who just like racing and who don't give a toss about who came out with what new wing this week will talk about the event for a long time.

as an american mate (very correctly) pointed out to me - the f1 fanboys (myself included) should take note. "f1 is a tradition in its established markets, where it enjoys notoriety as the pinnacle of road racing. but if it didn't exist, if you invented it today and you brought it to market as it is, it could very well fail miserably. the whole proposition is about racing, and the racing just isn't interesting." i love f1 and i do get really excited over the technical side, but for the second i pulled myself out of f1 fanboy mode i had to concede he had a point.

bernie (who has done more for f1 than anyone in recent memory) isn't silly. the US is a huge market if f1 can get it right, and f1 will - should - only come back when it CAN get it right.

i hope it does.

[Saribro]

The USA is a very large and rather new target group for F1

Really? Tomba, do you realize that 30 years ago there were 2 US GP's per season?

Which is about the time NASCAR started getting/widening TV coverage, intriguing...

On an entirely different note: Interesting turn of events -> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40038

Indianapolis chief executive Tony George has pledged to do everything in his power to ensure that Formula 1 returns to the legendary track after 2008.

[EDIT]
Thinking about the F1 <-> NASCAR, I've realised we're looking at:
Extremely complex-looking machines follow eachother turning left and right
<->
Shiny, coloured blobs change order turning left

Sounds like a simple case of "de gustibus et coloribus..." to me.

[ginsu]

What I absolutely can't stand about NASCAR is that they are slowly, in a whole bunch of ways, making it into a sort of spec series. It's horrible. I sincerely hope that F1 doesn't do the same.

I was no more rude than ginsu generalizing Southern Americans (from the southern states, not South America) being stupid for watching NASCAR than a more tech oriented series. That's called bigotry. I don't call people from southern England stupid for watching cricket instead of baseball. That was a broad and misinformed statement.

Sorry, Ray, I didn't mean to offend. Do you think you received a great education? I went to public school here in America and I don't think I got the greatest education. I certainly didn't learn very much about the world outside of America, and almost nothing about the physics of cars and racing.

All that I was trying to say, is that the AVERAGE American doesn't have enough of a technical background to appreciate the very technical side of F1. After all, why would we even be on this website if we didn't want to learn more about F1?

And I'm not saying the Europeans get a better education or are smarter or anything like that. I have no idea what schools are like in UK or Europe. Although, I can say that broadcasters like BBC and ITV don't write to the Lowest Common Denominator like FOX or SpeedTV do sometimes. I do like some of their more technical programming.

imagine the motogp circus at indy - they could have a single american rider in the class on a grid of 24 bikes and still do well. there's passing, there's great rivalries, there are huge, accessible, unique personalities, there are up-and-comers with a real shot at stealing the show, there are relevant manufacturers. unless there's an indygate again, people who just like racing and who don't give a toss about who came out with what new wing this week will talk about the event for a long time.

I have recently been watching MotoGP more and more and Hopkins and Hayden and Colin Edwards are great personalities and great Americans and I love to see them fighting with Rossi, and Stoner and the rest. I really wish F1 had the kind of competition between all nations the way MotoGP does. If we lose F1 in America, at least we have these guys.

[modbaraban]

lots of inflammatory crap in this post

Thanks for the warning... I did read it though.

Looks like mr.E did everything right then

Now you can watch the gas station for 2 hours. I hope u'll enjoy it.

[SZ]

Looks like mr.E did everything right then

right, be sarcastic. as if F1 would be nearly as popular, developed or profitable without his input. it's not *just* his fault that F1 hasn't gotten far in the US, and it's not likely to get much further without his involvement either. he's certainly not scared of change.

Now you can watch the gas station for 2 hours. I hope u'll enjoy it.

pull yourself out of fanboy mode for just a second.

why don't you tell us the most memorable bits of the actual racing last GP - that'd have been, what, the start, and maybe kimi raikkonen going third to first... without actually overtaking anyone at all? of the 24 cars racing, how many honestly, really had a shot of doing anything seriously competitive? are you going to bullshit and say it was >4 cars. or that the racing might actually go to the finish line... not the last pit stop?

and all the manufacturers are relevant to the 95th percentile, right? because you know anyone - anyone - that drives/gets excited about a spyker that's what... dead last by a long way every GP unless someone else has a major off?

personally

- i hope spyker get competitive (or that we get rules that have them be more competitive) and we can see what sutil can do in something other than rain or a one-off practice session

- i hope to watch an f1 race where there's actual, competitive racing - people overtaking each other for 12th isn't racing

- i want to see a race where kimi raikkonen doesn't go 1st in quali and wins by overtaking everyone else on track, because i think he can and because i think it'd be great to watch

- i want to see a race to the finish line every race, not a race i can tune off on after the leaders have made their last pitstops knowing team orders are in conservation mode... if hamilton wins from alonso, why should i - a fan - be denied watching the world champion drive LIKE a world champion to the finish line for the WHOLE race? you really think most people get excited about watching drivers get told to turn the RPM down and just bring it home?

yeah i'd like that all but we just don't get anywhere near that in f1, and to top it off the personalities involved are cold. so when you try to sell it to a market that already has series with very good racing in them - not just NASCAR - it's not nearly so marketable. the shame is f1 used to be and most of its fans would love it even more if it was again.

so come on mate, you tell me what's so exciting about the racing in f1 these days and how your average racing fan could and should be interested in it.

[SZ]

I certainly didn't learn very much about the world outside of America, and almost nothing about the physics of cars and racing.

All that I was trying to say, is that the AVERAGE American doesn't have enough of a technical background to appreciate the very technical side of F1. After all, why would we even be on this website if we didn't want to learn more about F1?

And I'm not saying the Europeans get a better education or are smarter or anything like that. I have no idea what schools are like in UK or Europe.

easy there mate, you're mistaken on a few key points.

if you're interested in automotive engineering on anything from production cars to f1, some of the best technical educations you can receive are based in the US. some of the best research facilities and teams are US based. some key f1 suppliers and technology partners are US based. if you're assuming a US education can't prepare you to be a part of a very technical racing series, you're insulting the many people in your country that have made and continue to make key, important contributions to the pinnacle of motorsports.

you're not going to get into any of this without a tertiary education in a relevant field at a relevant uni/college... in any country.

it's not like every F1 viewer in outside of the US has half an engineering degree. your average RACING FAN in america, asia, australia, europe, the north/south poles, wherever isn't on these forums and doesn't give a stuff about the technical end aside from "those mclarens are pretty quick this year"... they give a stuff about the racing. and it's not the best f1 racing in history at the moment.

Although, I can say that broadcasters like BBC and ITV don't write to the Lowest Common Denominator like FOX or SpeedTV do sometimes. I do like some of their more technical programming.

i like the BBC coverage too but to say that the pinnacle of motorsports actually needs another hour of brundle and friends before the race to make it more interesting is pretty sad. i can tune into a motogp race halfway through the warmup lap and be amazed at the racing until the checkered flag.

and the post-race press conferences are always amusing.

I have recently been watching MotoGP more and more and Hopkins and Hayden and Colin Edwards are great personalities and great Americans and I love to see them fighting with Rossi, and Stoner and the rest. I really wish F1 had the kind of competition between all nations the way MotoGP does. If we lose F1 in America, at least we have these guys.

if they just had hayden they'd still do just as well. there's so much good racing in motogp at the moment despite the fact there's three tyre suppliers and everyone having new engines/bikes. top effort.

[West]

I have to agree with a lot of SZ's points...

I got into F1 into the technical aspect, but last year you could always tell if Renault or Ferrari were going to be the winners. If I had to go somewhere halfway through a race, or miss it entirely, I could just look up a website and pretty much predict the top three.

F1 is gone from the US, but as a fan personally, I don't think it was Ecclestone's or George's fault. There simply isn't enough racing in F1 right now... just do your laps and go home.

[mahesh248]

Only few ppl are interested to watch F1 GP....or may be because of other problems ... i loved watching US Gp since 2000 its was amazing ...sad that its gone ...hmmm ....

[modbaraban]

[fanboy mode=off]I just completely fail to understand why some ppl want F1 to become something completely different and something they ALREADY have in other series... let me just watch the sport I love... for some reason I don't come to football (the one with non-spherical ball) forums and claim that it sucks and needs to apply football (they call it soccer in the US) rules to become better [/fanboy mode]