Primordial Superbike Racing.

[Gatecrasher]

I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.

[J.A.W.]

I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.

Yeah, certainly, current superbikes are a performance bargain, (& aint nothing wrong with cheap thrills - IMO)..
- yet the showroom stock units - while fast, are actually fairly sanitised..
.. with various built in electronic limiters to restrict wheel stands, lock-ups due to brake & clutch, top speed, etc,
& would be hard put to beat a top G.P. bike - from 25 years ago - or more, really..

But in its day, a well ridden H2 could defeat its contemporary superbike rivals point to point,
- on winding roads, & around the race track too.. ..see below..

http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/articles ... bikes1.htm

[Gatecrasher]

Yeah, certainly, current superbikes are a performance bargain, (& aint nothing wrong with cheap thrills - IMO)..
- yet the showroom stock units - while fast, are actually fairly sanitised..
.. with various built in electronic limiters to restrict wheel stands, lock-ups due to brake & clutch, top speed, etc,
& would be hard put to beat a top G.P. bike - from 25 years ago - or more, really..

As with all bikes it is 90% rider and 10% bike, or less if it has me on it The biggest change that I have seen on the old bikes vs new have been due to the tires, it is incredible the grip that modern race rubber gives.

With a top class rider onboard doing a lap time run off with a 1990 Yamaha YZR500 against an 2015 R1M. Assuming you put modern race rubber on the YZR I still think the M could win it. I love the old two strokes and the lower weight but making up for 50 HP and the technology on the R1M that allows you to fully utilize it would be a tough.

I don't have anti-lock, anti-wheelie, launch control, traction control or any speed limiters on my current track bikes, if I did I would have a few less broken bones If I do decide to upgrade to another bike I don't think I want 200hp without some of these options. I would not call any of these bikes sanitized, more "user friendly".

Great article by the way

[Gatecrasher]

After the last post I had to google it, did NOT expect to find this, not a race but still awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6M6mzoSiTI

[J.A.W.]

True, a proper race-fettled Superbike of recent vintage could likely better an old G.P. 500 race speed-wise, G..

But a showroom standard roadbike.. nah.. no way..
Way back in `93, S.Ito was clocked at 200+mph on an NSR 500..
& production R1's are limited to ~186mph..
G.P. bikes are, & always have been dedicated race machines, not shopping carts..

Just check the number of riders who have been race winners on Superbikes - then G.P. bikes.. aint many..

[J.A.W.]

& in fact G, if you check the quickest laps recorded for a fast G.P. track - say Phillip Is..
..you will see that the current "Production Superbike" ( racebike, not roadbike ) record is..
'bout equal to the old 250cc two-stroke G.P. bike best lap..

[J.A.W.]

Here is a Kevin Cameron CW article on the early US Superbikes..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/05/31/or ... ke-racing/

I note that even back in `77, the race speed of the Daytona winning Ducati Superbike..
.. was ~same as the best 250cc G.P. bike..

[J.A.W.]

A couple of interesting pix of the recently restored Warren Willing Chesterfield Superbike Series winning H2..
Scroll down a bit - on this site: http://www.halfofmylife.com/2015/03/25/oh-mr-sheene/

Steve McLaughlin picked up on Warren Willing's enthusiasm for this kind of racing, following a discussion
between the pair - when W.W. was racing stateside in the `70s - & as direct result..
.. AMA Superbike got started ( WSBK too) & are still with us..

[J.A.W.]

G, the following clip shows the British view of early "Superbike" racing.. but it was actually for dedicated race bikes,
..rather than modified showroom production bikes..
..it does include G.P. 500cc/F-750cc/F1-1000cc type bikes - all in together - though..

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q7ZrLzepSs

[bill shoe]

Here is a Kevin Cameron CW article on the early US Superbikes..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/05/31/or ... ke-racing/

I note that even back in `77, the race speed of the Daytona winning Ducati Superbike..
.. was ~same as the best 250cc G.P. bike..

If Kevin Cameron wrote an article about what he ate for breakfast it would be worth reading. Motorcycles are even better.

[J.A.W.]

Another American view of the origin of Superbike racing..

https://paulritterblog.wordpress.com/su ... ing-class/

& interestingly, Steve McLaughlin acknowledges the Aussie roots of the concept..

[J.A.W.]

I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.

As a matter of interest G, I checked the lap records for Sydney Motorsport Park, a former Moto G.P. venue..
I note that the current ( 2015) Superbike - race bike - not showroom standard road bike - quickest lap is..
..'bout the same as the 20 year old 500cc G.P. lap record..

[J.A.W.]

FYI, Warren Willing, a man prominent in this thread, & as a rider/tuner/engineer in Bike racing up to G.P. level,
died recently after illness related to injuries received in his sporting career, vale - W.W..

[J.A.W.]

Some cool early superbike pix here: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mrhpkawasaki75 ... 05811.html

.. shots of the late Warren Willing's 1975 Chesterfield Superbike Series winning H2, - as recently restored by his brother.

As a mark of how fast he got it going, Warren also won the `74 unlimited Grand Prix of NSW on it, against pukka G.P. bikes..

Edit; had to get that link to work..

[J.A.W.]

Strad, that's too funny, " love affair...rose tinted" - surely such flowery/emotive terms are way over the top - for a technical forum..

That the largest capacity everyday sporting 2T motorcycle made - made its mark as a racer - is simply a matter of historical record.

Does seem a pity - that a current large capacity 2T equivalent - aint available in showrooms today, though..