Mclaren Honda 2015

[Tauri_J]

Has Honda finally resolved the reliability issues? Compared to Renault things are looking good.

they took two new engines in spa and monza

[Sayeman]

Can't Mclaren help Honda on the ERS front? They do have Mclaren P1 which is a Hybrid.

[kaepernickus]

Has Honda finally resolved the reliability issues? Compared to Renault things are looking good.

they took two new engines in spa and monza

Because those are bad tracks for them anyway and so they can extend their pool of ("penalty free") available engines.

Reliability does seem okay right now, but that ERS weakness is killing any potential for better places.

Can't Mclaren help Honda on the ERS front? They do have Mclaren P1 which is a Hybrid.

The P1 has a system similar to KERS (MGU-K) I think, but that is still something very different from MGU-H and MGU_H seems to be the most problematic thing for Honda.

[santos]

Second best chassis? Does anyone belive in that? If they have the 2nd best chassis, and the engine have more power then the Renault, they should be battling at least with Toro Rosso. Fernando was fighting with the car in the Parabolic. I really don't belive that the chassis is that good.

[GoranF1]

FP2 results. In all the sectors, McLaren are about 5 to 8 kmph down on Mercedes. In fact in S1 McLaren was only 0.6 down on them however it is S2 and S3 with long straights were they loose a second each. I think it is the chassis + engine mix which is not working well enough. Maybe 75% is down to engine and 25% is down to chassis.

http://i.imgur.com/yIDWCJ6.jpg

On board Alonso's lap in FP. The engine sounds good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tUFOd0c6hA

sounds like they are hitting rev limiter much earlier than others at each straight.

[vantage87]

[Sayeman]

http://i60.tinypic.com/154c13r.png

343 Km/h??
doesn't sound that bad!

[vantage87]

YASUHISA ARAI

In the qualifying the ERS assist on the straight line is still lacking.
In race conditions, the energy management use is different, so, as a team, we hope to see some improvement.

[Moose]

http://i60.tinypic.com/154c13r.png

343 Km/h??
doesn't sound that bad!

Why doesn't it? 343km/h with no downforce is very different from 343km/h with enough wing to not oversteer around parabolica.

[bergie88]

YASUHISA ARAI

In the qualifying the ERS assist on the straight line is still lacking.
In race conditions, the energy management use is different, so, as a team, we hope to see some improvement.

This due to battery management, in the qualy they can deplete the battery in one lap, but in the race you have to be sure that the battery state of charge at the end of the lap is almost at the same as at the begin, so less energy is available.

[drunkf1fan]

People keep pointing to Mclaren speed traps as if they mean anything. Mercedes are deploying ers power throughout the lap, Mclaren aren't, it's mostly why they are so damn slow. It also means Mclaren don't use power throughout the whole lap but save it all for the one long straight. If they used it 'evenly' around the lap like other cars they would be significantly slower in the speed trap but a little faster in all the intermediate speeds.

The fundamental problem with the car is lack of ers power but not none, this will consistently give them misleading numbers from deploying vs not deploying. Thing is even with max ers power on the one straight when they use it probably all... they are still 12kph down and that is using as little downforce as possible. Bolt on same downforce Merc/Ferrari have you can probably take a further 10kph off that, probably a further 10-15kph down if they were using their ers power evenly around the lap.

[vantage87]

Alonso believes data from this weekend's running at Monza proves just how much McLaren is losing out on the straights.

"On a circuit that has six corners, on the GPS we lose six tenths in those six corners.
"The rest of the three seconds, we need to find on the straights."

Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights. That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.


Honda F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai admitted that the deployment of the hybrid system was the biggest problem.

"We have already found what is the weak point of the power-unit and we have already started work on it," he said.
He said the biggest part of that work would happen for 2016 but that Honda hoped to add small improvements to the hybrid system during the remaining seven races of this season.

[motobaleno]

People keep pointing to Mclaren speed traps as if they mean anything. Mercedes are deploying ers power throughout the lap, Mclaren aren't, it's mostly why they are so damn slow. It also means Mclaren don't use power throughout the whole lap but save it all for the one long straight. If they used it 'evenly' around the lap like other cars they would be significantly slower in the speed trap but a little faster in all the intermediate speeds.

The fundamental problem with the car is lack of ers power but not none, this will consistently give them misleading numbers from deploying vs not deploying. Thing is even with max ers power on the one straight when they use it probably all... they are still 12kph down and that is using as little downforce as possible. Bolt on same downforce Merc/Ferrari have you can probably take a further 10kph off that, probably a further 10-15kph down if they were using their ers power evenly around the lap.

but the table above show the apex speed in all the 3 main straight not just the longest one
and all the 3 are comparable with renault ones...

[drunkf1fan]

People keep pointing to Mclaren speed traps as if they mean anything. Mercedes are deploying ers power throughout the lap, Mclaren aren't, it's mostly why they are so damn slow. It also means Mclaren don't use power throughout the whole lap but save it all for the one long straight. If they used it 'evenly' around the lap like other cars they would be significantly slower in the speed trap but a little faster in all the intermediate speeds.

The fundamental problem with the car is lack of ers power but not none, this will consistently give them misleading numbers from deploying vs not deploying. Thing is even with max ers power on the one straight when they use it probably all... they are still 12kph down and that is using as little downforce as possible. Bolt on same downforce Merc/Ferrari have you can probably take a further 10kph off that, probably a further 10-15kph down if they were using their ers power evenly around the lap.

but the table above show the apex speed in all the 3 main straight not just the longest one
and all the 3 are comparable with renault ones...

Which would be a good thing IF and only if all four Renault runners hadn't had massive issues all weekend with reliability and slowness. Kvyat didn't put in any single lap running rather going for race pace. All the Renault's knew they were starting from the back and basically entirely ignored qualifying setup. Measuring against Renault is almost the definition of failure as Renault are failing very badly here at Monza

This is basically exactly what I was getting at, comparing one speed trap when we know Mclaren can barely deploy power and would almost certainly deploy what they have down the start finish straight effectively is rather silly because while 10kph down there(which isn't insignificant to begin with) they are 20kph down in the rest and setup purely for straight line speed.

Comparing them to Renault's is equally as flawed, Renault aren't fast here, infact they are awful here and having reliability issues. Looking for the positive and being optimistic isn't wrong or bad, but looking at every close number and assuming progression isn't just optimistic, it's misleading and incorrect. Mclaren haven't gained, they aren't close, Renault moved further back here, nothing else.

[ME4ME]

Going by the rumors Mclaren will be in big trouble next year. With big sponsors Johnny Walker and Santander leaving (as posted in the MP4-30 thread) and thus a lost of 20M pounds of annual income, it wouldn't surprise me if they decide it's better to let Button go and give one of their junior drivers a seat. That surely would safe them a couple of million pounds.

Another problem which seemingly still isn't cleared up is the token system for next year. Apparently as it looks now tokens for next year will have to be used before february the 28th. How exactly that is supposed to work I don't know - pre-season testing hasn't even started by then. But if that deadline, or any other deadline for early 2016 will be applied, and no further in-season development will be allowed, Honda will be in huge trouble. I'm not sure if Bernie will let it come to that though.

Some dark times at Mclaren. I wonder if Alonso has any kind of performance clause in his contract so he could get out. Surely he must consider his career options by now, and looking for other things to do. Indycar of WEC maybe.

/speculation