Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

[checkered]

Edit: previously "McLaren: Virtually unbeatable?"

There have been

a lot of passing remarks and murky references about McLaren's simulator in articles and commentaries. Now, a motorsport-total article does a pretty good job of summarizing what is known of the system. I think the speculation about the benefits for Lewis is somewhat unfounded, but that's a matter of opinion. The article is in german and I haven't got the time to do a full translation right now, but with the current web tools I trust it isn't a problem. A few quotes:

Fernando Alonso:

Compared to McLaren's, Renault's simulator resembles a PlayStation.

Pedro del a Rosa:

I'd say that it's very close to reality, the feeling is very similar to the one of sitting in a Formula 1 car.

An "insider", on Hakkinen trying out the simulator and the effects of "realistic force feedback" on him:

Mika almost hurt his hand, he was sore the next day.

[Torso]

yes it certainly pays off to have to biggest budget...like McLaren has for 2007.

Strangely Toyota has lost ground in this area..and are rumoured to make up a bit of ground by spending extra to hire Sato(!?) for 2008. Honestly, both Ralf and Jarno have lost their motivation (Ralf the most) from the lack of progress in Toyota, yet getting the 50% spin 50% quick Sato ain`t what Toyota needs in this situation. What Toyota really neeeds in a combination like Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn. And then offer these two "unlimited" resourches.

Ferrari has definitly proved those people that prediced a downward slump from losing Michael and Ross right. Once the momentum from having the most Bridgestone data has started to fade out Ferrari is visually losing ground to McLaren, and by the end of this season I predict Ferrari will struggle to make it on to the podiums. It`s no longer a secret that both Ferrari and Kimi himself are quite disapointed about his performance. Massa is simply quicker AND more consistant. Is there something wrong about Kimi or was he simply overrated? Has Ferrari been fooled by hype? A hype that forced them to come to the arguably wrong conlution that Kimi was the future....and indirectly tell Michael that he was the past??
Looking at this decision Ferrari made a HUGE and costly mistake by putting what from the outside looked like pressure on Michael to retire and give Massa the oportunity rather than to run a back to back test between Massa and Kimi to fine out if Kimi would really be worth the effort..and the loss of Massa. Undoubtably Ross Brawn left as a consequence of what he must have seen as a bad move by Ferrari. Michael and Ross would likely have done things to stop Ferrari slipping away from the McLarens like is happening at this moment....history proves that. And what ever u think about Michael...he would never look like Kimi in the middel of the pack. Michael always found ways to improve a difficult position during and inbetween GP`s. Kimi he just seems to give up once things are not moving in his favour.
So either Kimi takes a long talk with himself in the mirror and takes charge to motivate his engineers to turn the negative trend into a positive charge...or Michael must dress up in his drivers suit and start testing again a.s.a.p.

Unfortunately it doesn`t help Ferrari that sponsors has walked away in numbers as Michael steppend out of the car...

Money is no longer easy to find for the Ferrari. SO how long untill they are back where they were before 1996?

Renault looks to be finding the sollutions to the critical loss of the superiour Michelin tyres. Yet I think it`s time for Fisichella to retire, sure he has a few highs left in him yet the lows are in critical high number since several seasons now, how he was able to stay with Renault into 2007 in beyond understanding. Kovolainen will only get stronger and needs a better sparring-partner in order to improve further.

Honda...outpaced by their customer? wawaweewa..

McLarens technical advantage is growing and sad to say NOTHING out there has any means in them to stop them.

Anyone can be champion in the current McLaren. And it`s fun Hamilton is the guy that is handpicked to pick up the trophy as Ron seems to have reaslised that those team orders/preferential tactics in favour of Alonso WERE a mistake. Hamilton is now no 1 and he earned t DESPITE the teams efforts to prevent it. Well done Hamilton!!

I think the Britts may start singning "F1`s coming home" with confidence

[checkered]

Torso, I have to

point out my original intention: It was to see whether people would discuss and perhaps pool information about the F1 teams' simulators ... McLaren evidently has a very advanced device, hence the wordplay about them being "virtually" unbeatable. At no point did I refer to any wider measure of competitiviness of the teams in relation to each other. On hindsight, I can understand how the subject could be mistaken for a general notion of some sort, especially as I intentionally formulated the headline to seem interesting - but everything I wrote was about an actual simulator. There's also an actual link to an article about the said simulator, if you didn't notice. (I'm in the habit of posting links a bit unconventially, perhaps I should just post the URLs instead, just to make it obvious.)

[modbaraban]

As far as I understand the simulation has 2 aspects:

- software
- hardware

I heard many times that most teams (despite using PS2/3 game on most public events or for TV shows like GP Racing on-track and such) use rFactor sim by ISI for training the drivers and learning tracks.

In terms of hardware... I've no idea what they are using
However I heard of Williams and Toyota having some relations with BRD.
Personally I tried the Toyota sim-car with BRD gear and rFactor sim at Toyota stand at Kyiv Automotive Show 2007.
<-It looked like this
And it felt nice despite the huge amount of driving aids turned on but BRD hardware doesn't provide any kind of physical feedback (if that's what Pedro De La Rosa and "the insider" meant).
Other hardware manufacturers do produce steering wheels (and even brake pedals) with quite impressive force feedback.

checkered, if you find anything more (hopefully in English) on this inetresting subject, please share.

[naknak_56]

use rFactor sim by ISI

Are you on the payroll????????

[modbaraban]

use rFactor sim by ISI

Are you on the payroll????????

Hey! I hate that sim if you ask me

This is just what I head. If you have more/other info please share. Somehow there's lack of info on this.

PS: answering your question: unfortunately not

[millerjam]

Incidentally there's a short film on ESPN.com about driver Denny Hamlin, who in his rookie year last season did the double at Pocono speedway having only used a simulator to learn the track. It looks somewhere along the lines of something like GP4 on the PC, he's playing it at home after all.
I'd imagine the McLaren's and others are probably a little more sophisticated but at least it gives an impression, and it must be at least a little representative to get a feel for the track.
It's under "This video game is as real as it gets" in ESPN video player

[checkered]

Thought I could revive

this thread a bit, since I've stumbled on some new material online. Red Bull is building its own simulator which should, if I've understood correctly, resemble that of McLaren's very closely. (I vaguely remember RBR also hiring some sim guy from Macca directly, but could as well be wrong.) I had somehow overlooked the news (a year old), but better late than never. The company commissioned to build the apparatus is cueSim. Here's a copy of their press release on the subject:

The Formula 1 racing team Red Bull Racing has commissioned cueSim to produce a Formula 1 driver-in-the-loop-simulator. The simulator will be aimed at providing Red Bull Racing with an engineering tool to evaluate vehicle dynamics and system performance characteristics for different simulated setups.

The Red Bull Racing F1 simulator will incorporate a real F1 car tub which will be integrated into cueSim's simulation harness (RTAVS) and all electric motion and control loading harware. The unique nature of the driver environment for Formula 1 means that the simulator will be the result of very close cooperation between the subject matter experts at Red Bull Racing, and the simulator development engineers at cueSim.

The simulator will be fully immersive with large field of view, projected displays and high fidelity simulated racing circuit visual databases incorporating photo imagery. Red Bull Racing's Chief Technical Officer Adrian Newey commented, Red Bull Racing is committed to an investment in technology and capability that will put us at the very front of Formula 1, when it came to looking for a company to produce an R&D driver-in-the-loop simulator cueSim's flexibility, experience and attitude impressed us hugely. I have no doubt that this order with cueSim represents a significant step forward for Red Bull Racing, and very much look forward to using the end result.

Commenting on what this order means for cueSim, cueSim's Commercial Director Paul Read said, This represents a fantastic opportunity for cueSim, not only will we be building on the automotive simulation work we have done in the past; but, significantly, with a company that is at the very leading edge of motorsport technology.

Link to cueSim's website


An illustration of the RBR simulator, routed from QinetiQ's (link to related article) website. Interestingly QinetiQ is also AT&T Williams's partner.

Links to two Guardian features relating to McLaren's simulator:
Hamilton swaps simulator for Silverstone
Flawless Hamilton makes it look so easy - and proves a winner five times over

A quote from the latter article by Richard Williams:

In return Dennis put at Hamilton's disposal the greatest learning tool that any driver has ever been given. McLaren's simulator, developed over the past eight years at a cost estimated to be above £20m, has been Hamilton's schoolroom, where he sits in a full-size formula one car, minus wheels and a functioning engine, in a darkened room in front of a large, curved plasma screen. The chassis is suspended on a multi-point hydraulic rig which moves in response to his touches on the steering wheel and pedals as he watches a circuit unfold on the screen, with appropriate sound effects.

Everything in this grown-up video game is programmed via the simulator's software: the minutest details of the circuit, the response of the engine under different conditions, the type and wear-rate of the tyres, as well as the noise of the engine. No wonder that when Hamilton arrived in Melbourne at the start of the season, on his first visit to Australia, he took to the Albert Park track as if he had been driving there for half his life. In a sense, he had.

Dennis also introduced him to Dr Kerry Spackman, the New Zealand-born neuroscientist who has worked with him in and out of the simulator on developing his psychological responses and increasing his brain's ability to absorb, analyse, store and recall information. The brain is an instrument whose properties are only just being understood - scientists studying the effects of strokes, for example, are discovering that the right exercises can enable it to develop new circuits to replace those damaged or destroyed - and Spackman's use of virtual-reality techniques has enabled Hamilton to exploit his natural talent even further by expanding his mental capacity. In a way, it is like adding an extra litre to his Mercedes engine.

Martin Whitmarsh came to McLaren from BAE systems and the team's simulator is also said to be based on the same technology that powers EADS's Eurofighter Typhoon simulators. BAE certainly is a very important technology partner for McLaren, but BAE's press release from last year fails to mention co-operation in simulators. On the other hand, they are working together in so many fields that it's easy to imagine that such a "minor" detail has just been omitted from the release.

Link to the BAE press release

The Eurofighter simulators were actually contracted from CAE and they use an immersive projection system called "Medallion". Here's a link to CAE Simulation Products. Considering that McLaren's apparatus is estimated to have cost upwards of £20M, perhaps we can start to imagine what the thing can actually do.

[Scuderia_Russ]

I didn't know Red Bull were using a space framed chassis... might explain a few things.

[Sawtooth-spike]

I didn't know Red Bull were using a space framed chassis... might explain a few things.

Thats the RB04. Newey is always thinking outside the box

[Rob W]

I didn't know Red Bull were using a space framed chassis... might explain a few things.

Yeah... the one with the invisible suspension mounts.

Rob W

[joseff]

The sim rig does look like the Williams unit Martin Brundle tried out earlier this year.

[checkered]

The sim rig does look like the Williams unit Martin Brundle tried out earlier this year.

Not a surprise if

QinetiQ is involved in both cases. To my knowledge Mark Blundell's ITV visit is the only time a TV crew has had the opportunity to film a state of the art F1 team simulator. If you haven't seen it, a clip is still available on the AT&T Williams website. It's hard to link directly to that, though, so the link below is to a YouTube copy.

Mark Blundell in the Williams Simulator (link)

Perhaps, once they're done with it, I can buy the thing for £50 and set it up in my living room? ... What better way to get a daily upper body workout.

[joseff]

Whoops, I mixed up the Brundells. And they both work for ITV nowadays?

[modbaraban]

That must be BRD. I've given the link above.