VW cheat emissions test with "defeat device"

[Tommy Cookers]

do the European emission rules (for certifying new vehicles) have a 'DD' clause ?
(without this the cars have apparently passed the testing)
we were told yesterday that 1.2 million VW group cars here in the UK have the DD-qualifying software

today Lord Drayson (ex Govt chief scientific advisor) tells us that diesels are killing people and that subsidy for diesels is wrong
if a country eg the Netherlands has diesel fuel cheaper than petrol (gasoline) does this mean diesels don't kill people in that country ?

UK 'science' says how many in the UK die annually from diesel pollution (at 29000 people-years of death-prematurity)
though the 29000 'premature deaths' are/were attributed to particulates (elsewhere 6000 were attributed to NOx)

presumably this 'science' looking at age of death wrt other parameters eg voting patterns .....
would show eg that voting Demoblican causes 173000 premature deaths compared with voting Repucrat

it's screamingly obvious that making diesels (and others) apparently ever cleaner, by lowering test emission limits .....
will not give a proportionate benefit to emissions in-use
the public should in part blame the regulators and those behind them

[jz11]

Lets be real here.
ALL manufacturers use what ever they can to defeat the regulations it is standard practice.
These accusations are an attempt to seriously damage VW and the use of diesel cars in the USA.
The reasons have NOTHING to do with clean air.

Tin foil hat much gyro?

things like these don't happen because few people die couple years before average life span, if this was the case, alcohol and tabacco would have been made illegal 30-40 years ago

p.s. I don't necessarily agree about US trying to protect its own car manufacturers, meaning that it is not just about that

[bhall II]

do the European emission rules (for certifying new vehicles) have a 'DD' clause ?

The Volkswagen scandal has exposed failures by the European Commission and several of the EU’s national regulators to enforce legislation outlawing the defeat devices used by the German carmaker to cheat in diesel vehicle emissions tests.

The Financial Times contacted the national regulators responsible for vehicle certification in seven of Europe’s biggest carmaking countries to ask whether they had ever conducted inspections for defeat devices since the European Commission declared them illegal in 2007.

Germany, Spain, Slovakia and the Czech Republic said that they had not done so. Britain and France were unable to comment. Only Italy said that it had carried out some inspections.

Europe’s failure to crackdown on software-based defeat devices is triggering calls by some politicians for a US-style regulator to police exhaust fumes.

The EU’s weak regulatory regime around certification of new cars allows carmakers to shop around country by country and choose the national regulator that will approve vehicles through testing. That regulator’s decision is then applied across the EU’s 28 member states.

Some politicians are concerned these arrangements enable carmakers to seek out the most lenient national certification regime.

Politicians are particularly worried about potential conflicts of interest arising from how the carmakers pay for the certification work. They say these payments create an incentive for national regulators — or the private companies often tasked with doing the work — to grant approvals too easily.

“The problem is the system we have created in the EU, where there seems to be a very perverse incentive for national testing authorities to be as easy-going as possible to attract [car companies],” said Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy, a Dutch member of the European Parliament’s environmental committee.

[...]

[Tommy Cookers]

found this ....

http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/e ... standards/

[strad]

Diesel is nasty dirty stuff that we shouldn't be using at all.

[bdr529]

Diesel is nasty dirty stuff that we shouldn't be using at all.
http://s22.photobucket.com/user/STRAD2/ ... 0.jpg.html

Why does that diesel burn locomotive have steam coming out of the bottom of it ?

[DaveW]

Diesel is nasty dirty stuff that we shouldn't be using at all.
http://s22.photobucket.com/user/STRAD2/ ... 0.jpg.html

Weren't they wood-burners?.... Perhaps this is your solution...?

[J.A.W.]

Loco shown is using an external combustion mill, its coal carbon particulate emissions are actually not as toxic as CI-ICE..

Pressure/heat in CI mills plus diesel fuel characteristics - produce particulates of size/type - that are bad for lodging in lungs.

[jz11]

that solution has its own risks him becoming an uniballer... and then the lawsuit where US (coincidence? ) post office is suing him for 3 times the amount they gave him while under sponsorship contract (gave something like 30mil and suing for 90), the whole situation is ridiculous, pretty much everyone there was cheating (coincidence again...), but all of a sudden one cheater is much worse than the rest

[djos]

Diesel is nasty dirty stuff that we shouldn't be using at all.
http://s22.photobucket.com/user/STRAD2/ ... 0.jpg.html

Weren't they wood-burners?.... Perhaps this is your solution...?

I might be wrong but Iirc the stream trains that emitted dark black smoke like that burnt oil not wood. The wood burners emitted a grey-white smoke.

Edit I recalled it wrong, oil burning stream locomotives emit white-grey smoke, it's coal burners emit thick black smoke.

[bdr529]

It's a coal burner, I was just having a little fun, this is a VW train
1954 Escher VW-Porsche Kleinbahn Prototype

[turbof1]

Loco shown is using an external combustion mill, its coal carbon particulate emissions are actually not as toxic as CI-ICE..

Pressure/heat in CI mills plus diesel fuel characteristics - produce particulates of size/type - that are bad for lodging in lungs.

I was thinking the same. Although an invitation for lung cancer, I don't think it'll have the saem high NOx emitions as diesel.

[DaveW]

Pls allow me to reference my own post....

I have no issues with that...I thought your original post was constructive & relevant, and your further comments have added to that.

It bothers me that a current EPA law (or rule, perhaps) implies that all power train control code must be "Open Source" to avoid falling foul of the law. I cannot imagine that the idea would go down well with either suppliers or manufacturers. They might even walk away from idea (hence my trivial thought that push bikes might be a solution).

I think the only sensible option would be a comprehensive (i.e. realistic) test, or continuous monitoring, as you suggested. But keeping thieves at bay would be a challenge, I think.

[DaveW]

Personally I cringe when I hear expensive Merc's and BMW's clatter by me and wonder why someone would waste their money on a luxury vehicle only to power it with a glorified tractor motor!

Mmm, Tractor motors that happened to win Le Mans from 2006 to 2011, inclusive.....

[ElianaL]

We've been asked to make a TV documentary for the BBC's Panorama in the wake of the Volkswagen scandal. We are looking to talk to anyone with new, first hand information relating to the topic, or anyone with knowledge on modern defeat devices.

We are also interested in the testing processes.

If you think you can help, please get in touch: eliana@amazingproductions.co.uk, 07964 665 664.

If necessary we can keep it confidential.