Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

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checkered
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There's a Q&A

with Toyota's Dieter Gass that deals with simulating a track. Granted, this isn't the same as running a simulator, but the two things are at least partially convergent. Especially interesting as Gass discusses how the simulation evolves over time.

Autosport: Q&A with Toyota's Dieter Gass (link)

Edit: Here's Willy Rampf (link), discussing the same issue from BMW Sauber's point of view in anticipation of the Fuji GP.
Last edited by checkered on 24 Sep 2007, 22:50, edited 2 times in total.

countersteer
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This might be stupid... but...

How does a simulator (car/aircraft/whatever) simulate an acceleration greater than 1g for any significant period of time. None of what I seem indicate that they can. I've got a few ideas that can achieve such but they are far more involved than anything I've seen.

and... If it CAN"T provide acceleration greater than 1 g... what good is it as a simulator?

Just my $0.02...

Carlos
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CAE may be the people to ask. They build civil and military aviation simulators. Civil for airlines. Military for the USA. I also read somewhere they built a simulator for an F1 team; but I'm not to sure which. It may be on F1T somewhere to. Someone on the site probably has more details that will answer your question. Posted because I'm proud it's a Canadian company. :D

http://www.cae.com/www2004/index.shtml

RH1300S
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countersteer wrote:This might be stupid... but...

How does a simulator (car/aircraft/whatever) simulate an acceleration greater than 1g for any significant period of time. None of what I seem indicate that they can. I've got a few ideas that can achieve such but they are far more involved than anything I've seen.

and... If it CAN"T provide acceleration greater than 1 g... what good is it as a simulator?

Just my $0.02...
The simulator isn't there to provide a fun ride for the engineers ;) - it's there to simulate the car running on a particular circuit to let them get the setup as close to optimum as possible before they even turn a (real) wheel.

Belatti
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RH1300S wrote: The simulator isn't there to provide a fun ride for the engineers ;) - it's there to simulate the car running on a particular circuit to let them get the setup as close to optimum as possible before they even turn a (real) wheel.
Right, but also to provide a fun ride for the drivers. At least thats what the newspaper article that chekered posted said, that Hamilton was running in the simm in order to learn tracks and car reaction.

To answer countersteer, I think that with actual technology it would be possible to generate "Gs" in the direction you want. Just put the simm cockpit in the "merry go roud" (please, sorry for using this term, understand that for a Spanish speakig man there are a lot of unknown words) and a mechanism to let it rotate, so that you can feel centrifugal accelerations like throttle when you point inside and braking when you point outside and turning when you point "tangently" (here correct me again) to the movement of the "merry go".
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Belatti wrote:To answer countersteer, I think that with actual technology it would be possible to generate "Gs" in the direction you want. Just put the simm cockpit in the "merry go roud" (please, sorry for using this term, understand that for a Spanish speakig man there are a lot of unknown words) and a mechanism to let it rotate, so that you can feel centrifugal accelerations like throttle when you point inside and braking when you point outside and turning when you point "tangently" (here correct me again) to the movement of the "merry go".
This is actually

the only way I can imagine one could actually exert the actual G's (which seem to max at 5 or a little over) on the driver. It would be an enormous setup, though, and I don't even know of airplane simulators rigged up inside centrifuges. No, I think the best F1 simulators do simulate Gs, too, by moving horizontally, but only in the order of 20% of the real force at the very most, propably much less even. I would guess all the forces must be applied with the same proportion, or the impression that stays with the driver might become distorted with regard to what he might expect to experience on track.

I don't know for sure, of course, this is speculation. Correct me if I'm wrong here - I'd be properly amazed if a team had a centrifugal simulator. I did get the impression though, that the force feedback from the steering wheel is realistic, for what it's worth.

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Here's Massa talking

about the need to improve Ferrari's simulator. Originally from Ferrariworld.com, but since that's mostly a flash website it's pretty hard to link to specific content there so, here's one to the corresponding article at F1-Live (link) .
Felipe Massa wrote:Like most of the other drivers I guess, I have been using the simulator we have in the factory to learn the Fuji track. I spent the whole day there last Tuesday. At least now I know where the corners are and I also got a feel for the track and its character in general. This means that when practice starts on Friday, I will be more familiar with the circuit and at least I will know which way the corners go.

I think that was a very useful day's work. At Ferrari we are still developing our simulator a lot, as we are not where we want to be with it yet. We are working very hard to improve this, but it will take a bit more time to get it operating at the highest level. But, in a situation like this coming weekend, where you don't know the track at all, it is still a very useful tool.

bizadfar
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oops, ignore

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checkered
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Williams F1 - Careers wrote:Driver Model Developer

Job ID: 091, # Positions: 1, Location: UK-Oxfordshire, Experience (Years): .., Posted Date: 11-27-07, Category: ..

Overview:
We are seeking a highly motivated individual to work in our Vehicle Dynamics Department to enhance our simulation capabilities.
The role will involve developing optimal vehicle control algorithms and/or mathematical models of the human driver.

Qualifications:
You will be qualified to degree level in either Engineering or Mathematics and should have a strong mathematical background. The ideal candidate will have experience in applied mathematics, control systems or optimisation. Some experience writing mathematical, scientific or engineering software would be beneficial.

Closing date: 7 December 2007
Link - Williams F1
PitPass wrote:... All of which begs the question, how long before Lewis, Kimi, fernando and Co are replaced by computer programmes, which, if nothing else, will cost considerably less - in the long term - don't throw their toys out of the pram at every opportunity, don't get chased around by publicity-seeking bimbos and don't knock back copious amounts of booze.

It's only a matter of time.
End of the road for drivers? - link, pitpass.com

:lol:

Well, I think

if we'd really put our minds to it, we could simulate the tantrums, bimbos and various stages of inebriatedness too, so fear not. Given the advances in CGI, we won't be able to tell real people from animated ones anyway. Rewriting the overview somewhat: "The role will involve developing optimal media and interpersonal control algorithms and/or mathematical models of the driver in all perceivable social and workplace settings."

FLC
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Re: Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

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Ferrari's new simulator is about to be ready following more than 18 months of development led by Felipe Massa's former race engineer Gabriele Delli Colli. The new simulator is believed to be superior to that of McLaren. It was reported that Marc Gene's recent test session at Jerez was focused solely on comparing the feelings from the car to those in the simulator. This is what Luca Baldisserri had to say on it in a recent interview:
The simulator isn't a playstation, it should faithfully reconstruct all the feelings a driver experiences on track. It's not easy: the biggest problem is the braking because the decelaration reaches 5 G for some seconds, so that's a long time. This demands a very complicated mechanically and hydraulically operated machine: only a few companies in the world are able to manufactur that
Maybe Belatti is right and they can actually simulate that amount of G's? I mean why else would Baldisserri point exactly that number?

modbaraban
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Re: Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

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5Geeez???!! Geeezzz!!! :shock:

I'd like to see that in action!

dumrick
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Re: Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

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Do they have hydraulic rams pushing a guy's helmet??? :shock:

modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Professional F1 Simulators (renamed)

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dumrick wrote:Do they have hydraulic rams pushing a guy's helmet??? :shock:
BTW, I once read a topic at a simracing forum... actually a blog of a guy trying to build that sort of simulator for his home PC cockpit. He tried attaching bungees with electric motors to the helmet to simulate Gs. :o