The World Motor Sport Council has today formally approved the return of the Formula One qualifying system as it was used in 2015. This means the elimination of 6 cars in the first two parts of qualifying, before a shootout among 10 cars in the final session.
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It's really sad that we're having this discussion at all.
Dear Bernie:
Formula 1 is not a show. It is not wrestling. Yes we all want it to be entertaining, but first and foremost, Formula 1 is a competitive sport. You can't bias against drivers or teams, or penalise people who are good at what they do simply because you think it will make for more exciting TV.
Moose wrote:It's really sad that we're having this discussion at all.
Dear Bernie:
Formula 1 is not a show. It is not wrestling. Yes we all want it to be entertaining, but first and foremost, Formula 1 is a competitive sport. You can't bias against drivers or teams, or penalise people who are good at what they do simply because you think it will make for more exciting TV.
What you mean? Shhh...
Formula1 is all about the reality show!
After watching qualy for the 2nd time today, i must say i didnt think it was THAT BAD. Q1 was certainly more exciting given even all teams scrambled to get in a good lap at first. At that point, all teams still have a considerable amount of unused tires available and those not confident in contesting for Q3 will use them, hence more quick laps.
Q2 was okay.
Q3 was rather disappointing and very anti climax, but i assume it would have been a lot better, if Ferrari had gone out again with both cars. But you cant blame them for wanting to keep an unused set of SS that could net them an advantage during the race given they were unlikely to contest for pole anyway.
So... while Q3 was bad, we need to look at the broader picture and that is; how is the new format inspite of the situation of tomorrows race. And that is: McLaren out of position. So is Haas. Probably Renault too. So we will see action there.
Also Ferrari have an extra unused set of SS. If there long run pace is good and closer to Merc, that could lead to a battle for 2nd or even the win, assuming no start surprises. If this qualifying leads to more exciting race at the expense of anti climax Q3, it's not that bad of a trade off.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
I just watched my recording of qualifying and as many have stated, this new format is an absolute farce. It is a shame that because of dwindling viewers on tv and attendees at the tracks, The bozos that are running F1 have to come up with idiotic formats to "spice" up the action. I have attended and watched F1 since 1964 and have witnessed the slow strangulation of the origins of this sport...a lack of drivers with charisma/character, grit and skill (most are talking heads)....strange rules on aerodynamics of race cars, that decrease overtaking..... rules on amount of allowed fuel rate ( let the boys put the pedal to the metal ).... huge run off areas that do not penalise the driver for a dumb mistake and then allow them to re-enter at times in a dangerous way due to an unfocused driver, etc. etc.
This is my first post on this forum, so please forgive me for my rant, but I do care about this sport.
Last edited by Flying Scotsman on 19 Mar 2016, 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
cooken wrote:While Nico and Lewis were out setting their laps, the broadcast was stuck in pitlane focused on stationary Ferraris. Only reverted back to actual track action for sector 3. I mean, even if you fix the qualy format, they need to do a waaay better job capturing on track action.
Indeed so. But then FOM would have to go against Bernie's wishes of not showing Mercedes too much.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Bernie now saying he didn't want to change qualifying after all. He'd rather bring in a Mickey Mouse performance penalty system:
But Ecclestone said he would prefer to retain parts of the old system and then have a way of demoting the fastest drivers on the grid.
"My idea was a simple one - you leave qualifying alone," he said.
"But I wanted to take the results of the last race, and the guy that won that race would have so many seconds, or tenths of a second, added to his qualifying time.
"So that might put the guy on pole in sixth or seventh or wherever, and then we would get a mixed-up grid and some good racing for at least half the race."
But if the cars can't follow each other, all that would happen is that the same cars would rotate the pole/win positions. So the guy who wins race one might go back to 4th or 5th. The next guy would then win and then get demoted. Repeat until the first guy is at the front again. I would definitely walk away from F1 if they brought in something so ridiculous. You'd end up with the very real possibility that the winner of the title was the driver who scored more thirds or fourths because he avoided first and second and the associated demotions. Teams would probably base their strategy on trying not to win races!
Other series do penalise performance by adding "win ballast". That is still contrary to the concept of the much-proclaimed "pinnacle of motorsport" though.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
This is probably the most graphic example I have ever seen of why strategic "committees" never work.
As long as you don't have a single person with vision and half a brain calling the shots, you remain at the mercy of everyone's individual agendas.
The best you can hope for everyone to agree on something they don't really want but it's the only thing that everyone agree on. For example emptying the track for qualifying:
Even though I agree that the current session was a joke however I'm not sure if it is caused by Bernie.
I think the teams have also a part in this failure.
The new format would work if the slower teams will fight for their place.
What we saw is that they were still driving as last year. Meaning, they do one lap and go to the pit box.
What they should have done is add fuel for 2, 3, 4 laps and drive and defend your place.
What we saw was eg the McLarens.
They were in the pits when they were not even close to knock out zone (certainly Alonso).
They did not seem to care. They were still looking at the clock to go out at the final minutes of Q2 however were knocked out before even going out.
Same with Q3, Sainz, verstappen,... should have been fuelled for several timed laps in the format.
They know they will be knocked out.
Instead they went for safe.
This resulted in Ferrari saying, well we will never beat Mercedes, as the ones just behind us are going to be out in the next minutes we don't need to go out.
If they want to stick with this format they should force them to be fuelled for eg 3 timed laps.
This will the gain of just doing one timed lap might not be sufficing if someone goes for 3 timed laps.
So idd, what we saw was a joke.
However the system last year where in q3 they just do 2 timed laps is also not really what it is supposed to be.
fenix4life wrote:Even though I agree that the current session was a joke however I'm not sure if it is caused by Bernie.
I think the teams have also a part in this failure.
The new format would work if the slower teams will fight for their place.
What we saw is that they were still driving as last year. Meaning, they do one lap and go to the pit box.
What they should have done is add fuel for 2, 3, 4 laps and drive and defend your place.
What we saw was eg the McLarens.
They were in the pits when they were not even close to knock out zone (certainly Alonso).
They did not seem to care. They were still looking at the clock to go out at the final minutes of Q2 however were knocked out before even going out.
Same with Q3, Sainz, verstappen,... should have been fuelled for several timed laps in the format.
They know they will be knocked out.
Instead they went for safe.
This resulted in Ferrari saying, well we will never beat Mercedes, as the ones just behind us are going to be out in the next minutes we don't need to go out.
If they want to stick with this format they should force them to be fuelled for eg 3 timed laps.
This will the gain of just doing one timed lap might not be sufficing if someone goes for 3 timed laps.
So idd, what we saw was a joke.
However the system last year where in q3 they just do 2 timed laps is also not really what it is supposed to be.
Supersoft is only good for one timed lap. Improvement on lap2 or lap3 etc is not possible.
I was just watching the new Qualy format and I just realised: if the cars weren't able to be refuelled and Qualy had no intervals (45 min straight) maybe this new elimination system worked.
What a complete load of --- the new format is. The qualifying format was about the only bit of the F1 rules that had been sorted out and worked well and now that been bollocksed up as well.
Blimey
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver
henry wrote:Here's your grid if you take top 10 last year championship and apply your rule. Your task is to spot the difference.
Firstly, the point is we get cars out on track pushing to the last, trying to get as good a lap time after the "penalty" is added. Something that was missing today.
Secondly, all results were skewed today because there were 25% less laps this year compared to last, with a 10% bigger grid.
Disclaimer....percentages aren't exact, but ballpark. Currently mobile....
I wasn't trying to criticise you. Only showing the consequences.
I retried the scheme with 2 seconds added to first 1.8 to second etc. Result:
CARLOS SAINZ
LEWIS HAMILTON
NICO HULKENBERG
SERGIO PEREZ
DANIEL RICCIARDO
NICO ROSBERG
FERNANDO ALONSO
FELIPE MASSA
SEBASTIAN VETTEL
JENSON BUTTON
KIMI RÄIKKÖNEN
MAX VERSTAPPEN
VALTTERI BOTTAS
MARCUS ERICSSON
JOLYON PALMER
KEVIN MAGNUSSEN
FELIPE NASR
DANIIL KVYAT
ROMAIN GROSJEAN
ESTEBAN GUTIERREZ
RIO HARYANTO
PASCAL WEHRLEIN
It pushes the pole man's closest rivals deep into the pack. The opposite of what is intended.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus