Aero testing and workforce limitations

[dumrick]

http://www.f1technical.net/news/7788

What's your opinion about the decision of limiting wind tunnel time and overall testing resources?

I frankly think it's utter crap. Formula 1 is the top class in motorsport and internal teams affairs and resources are being controlled like it was Nascar.

Furthermore, I strongly doubt that this is even "enforceable" and I predict it may open a lot of debate and controversy. For instance, Red Bull and Toro Rosso have no resources whatsoever. They are supplied by Red Bull Technologies, which is not a F1 licence holder and not subjected to these rules. Or not? Under the current Concorde agreement, teams have bought 3rd party chassis (March, Lola, Dallara...). These chassis suppliers (RBT, Dallara...) cannot manage their resources freely if they want to supply F1 car designs? Will the teams outsource all development? That's a likely scenario...

[scarbs]

I think the teams like Honda, Williams and Toyota will be scratching their heads wondering what are they going to do with their second tunnels.

Although to be fair the aero staff have had a 'feeling' that soemthing like this was going to happen sooner or later.

It sounds ripe for imaginative interpretations, how about forming Red Bull 'wing' technologies to design a front wing and sell it to RBR and STR..?

They'll need to define what a 'run' is in wind tunnel, we may see motorised models with a run (which takes 30 mins anyway) to include a range of wing angles as well as ride attitudes, this would pack in more data from a 'run'.

[modbaraban]

I agree with all that dumrick.

Isn't it so obviously stupid to try reducing costs when the sponsors stand in line with bags full of money? Not to mention that the key point of F1 isn't about the cheap entertainment. It supose to be the (technical) pinnacle of motorsports with the best of the best engineers buiding ultra high-tech racecars for the best of the best drivers to push 99.0%-99.9% performance out of them. That what F1 is supposed to be, right?

[Ogami musashi]

I see it relatively good.

I see for some times a number of formulaes far cheaper than F1 going near F1.

Okay all those series are specs series so it required only one R&D campaign for all, but as it is now F1 is IMHO quite low as far as efficiency is concerned.

Just look at Teams budgets and their results..you can have a 2:1 ratio for a team that don't win (honda, toyota).

So i think restriction are good including on some technical aspects but only if evolution is permitted...that's what we will discover from january to march 08 when rules will be published.

"Restriction" on brakes for example, will i think concern the Brake ducts and surely a standardization of those parts.

Max mosley also confirmed the bodywork reshape proposed by the OWG was adopted.

All in one we need to look closely at each case, but on the meaning, i'm for a bit of restriction so that spending be more efficient.

I'm not against some little standardizing where very few variations are seen, but not on major parts.

Anyway we'll see!

[Carbon]

My immediate impression was "hmmm, interesting way to keep costs down," which was quickly followed by, "just how are the FIA going to police this?"

In the days where Teams like RBR have an auxilary arm developing its cars, how far will the FIA ruling go?

Sounds hopeful, but rather tough to crack down on and monitor.

[rghai6]

First the engine development freeze now this. Wth do they want the engineers to do ? This is truly ridiculous.

[bar555]

The next thing FIA would do is to end Constructor's Championship . After all what is the glamour when all the teams run same spec chassis , engines and tyres .

F1 is turning to GP2 rather than GP2 to F1 . What a pity . Maybe KERS can motivate teams to advance their performance in a new field ( and mechanics can keep their jobs too) .

[axle]

[sarcasm]Well this is good news - by limiting development no one at the back can move fwd and challenge the likes of Ferrari...so the FerrariIA can continue winning, marvellous.

[/sarcasm]

[freedom_honda]

first thought: ridiculous

seriously, use your common sense do you really think all those big teams like Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, Honda and Red Bull are really going to cut their budget?

plus, can the f1 cars be any more slower?
first we changed our slicks to grooved..
then V10 to less powerful V8.
and now they are planning to cut Aero by 50% by 2009 and limiting windtunnel usage as well as freezing engine development

f1 seems to become a business more than a sport that shows the highest level of technology. f1 jsut isnt f1 any more.

we dont need another GP2 series thanks Max.

[rghai6]

@bar555
No, the next thing they'll do is make Mcpherson struts compulsary to "neutralize" the field and save costs

[mcdenife]

Of the big guns, I think Ferrari are the most vulnerable (too bad IMO). But I too think the FIA is overstepping its mark and does not have a hope to enforce this cos for example, mclaren racing may be answerable to the FIA but certainly not the Mclaren group or daimler benz. But I am sure there is something else behind this (if a child wants a dog but his/her parents have a no pets rule, then demand a horse and make their lives hell when the don't give u the horse. After a while tell 'em you will settle for a dog)

[ben_watkins]

I think the imposition of a limit on windtunnel/CFD and other testing is absurd.

Here is the full list of restrictions..

The following aerodynamic testing restrictions will be applied from 2008:

• Teams to use no more than one wind tunnel.
• Test fluid to be air at atmospheric pressure.
• Maximum test section wind speed 50m/sec.
• Maximum model scale 60%.
• No more than one model to be tested during a run.
• Maximum usage to be equivalent to 15 runs per 8 hour day on 5 days per week for team F1 purposes. Tunnel may be contracted out at other times.
• Aerodynamic testing may only take place in wind tunnels if at reduced scale or at FIA approved test tracks if full scale. Full size testing to be subject to the F1 testing agreement.
• Full scale specific aerodynamic testing is to be reduced to 5 days/year.
• Restrictions will be imposed to stop shift of resource from wind tunnel testing to CFD.
• The number of people involved in CFD development will be limited to a number to be agreed.
• CFD computer systems will be characterised in order to set hardware performance limits but growth will be allowed year-on-year to allow for hardware / software development.

Other restrictions will be placed on Rig Testing, Design and Manufacturing, Suspension and Brakes, Hydraulic Systems, Bodywork, Weight Distribution, Circuit Testing and the number of personnel at races.

Further details of these restrictions will be given to the teams at a meeting on 11 January 2008 and detailed regulations based on these principles will be put forward at the spring meeting of the WMSC.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 07-14.html


What on earth do teams such as Honda, who have 2 wind tunnels, 1x 50% scale model tunnel and 1x 100% scale tunnels do now? They've spent millions of pounds/dollars on implementing, commisioning, running these tunnels for what? To be told they can't use their 100% tunnel now? Same with many other teams, like Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and so on.

Restrictions on test rigs? WTF? Test rigs are essential for safety! Limit the amount of test rig time, tunnel tests, cfd tests etc will mean the test & race drivers will be put in even more danger than they are in when they pilot these cars!

CFD h/w restrictions? WTF? Honda just paid shedloads of money for a SGI system. BMW have a collosal CFD system with 1024 CPUs and a TB of RAM.. Now the FIA want to "dumb down" these systems or limit their use?

I am bemused beyond belief. How can the FIA police this? What are the sanctions for breaching the testing limits?

WTF is Max and the FIA doing?????????

[dumrick]

What on earth do teams such as Honda, who have 2 wind tunnels, 1x 50% scale model tunnel and 1x 100% scale tunnels do now? They've spent millions of pounds/dollars on implementing, commisioning, running these tunnels for what?

Sell them to a third party and buy them the final car design. Is there a way to forbid teams from having... suppliers?

[mcdenife]

multiple choice question.
Forgetting about the rest of the field for a moment, of the big guns (in terms of financial clout) which team, in the long term, benefits most from this:
a) BMW
b) Ferrari
c) Honda
d) Mclaren (as oppossed to Just mclaren mercedes)
e) Renault
f) Toyota

[dumrick]

seriously, use your common sense do you really think all those big teams like Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, Honda and Red Bull are really going to cut their budget?

Can you imagine such a team knocking on the door of a sponsor to demand a budget reduction? "We seem to be getting too much money from you, gentlemen..."