Dear "Sir" Ron

[Seas]

Dear “Sir” Ron Denis!
I know that is not easy time for you, but:
Look’s like you, your supporters, including all British media, were right. That was witch hunt. But problem is, FIA find the Witch.
I certainly hope that those journalists who vehemently defended you, and vilified the FIA, WMSC and Ferrari, condemn McLaren with the same style of wrighting. But deep inside something telling me, this will never happened! The conspiracy theories, mafia accusations, FIA favoritism? And now we know what is all about.
Until now, Ferrari and FIA were the bad guys, you dear Sir, and your McLaren were the innocent victims being pursued by Max and big bad and ugly FIA. Don’t forget, they are now canceling further investigation, and they actualy forgiving you. And you are actually using Ferrari secrets. You just can’t develop them.
I must confess, I am no McLaren fan, but I started to feel sorry for you and frustrated by what seemed to be a real witch hunt. Turns out that FIA guys were right. This explains why the verdict on McLaren's 2008 car has been delayed. Not only was the use of the Ferrari information wide spread throughout your organization, we now find out that your team had actually used the information in the design of your 2007 and 2008 cars, which the FIA thankfully discovered in their investigations. In July you reassured us, after a thorough two-day investigation, that nobody in McLaren had seen this information. Because, your technical people actually turned their heads when Coughlan tried to show them drawings! That’s funny. At least you should know that good tech engineer NEVER turn his head in opportunity to see something new and good what can be incorporated in their drawings and design to improve it. NEVER!! That’s why they are in F1! But we all have to admit that is nothing wrong with that. That is in engineer’s blood. But don’t hide that, admit it! For your follower’s sake!
It was found that you and your team were not honest over Mike Coughlan's role within the team and also discovered that senior figures at Woking were willing to use Ferrari's technical information on their 2008 car. Not only that, the report uncovered that contrary to McLaren's evidence at the WMSC hearings, Coughlan did play an active role in the design of suspicious systems, especially the brake balance system.
Far from being transparent, it unfortunately appears that you only acted when it was clear that you were going to get a serious slap on the wrist by the FIA and WMSC.
I don’t want to ask you about your intentions in the appeal after Brazil. I hope it was really only the clarification of the rule. Because YOU tell as that is all about clarifications. But your big mouth lawyers want something else. Was that by your orders? I don’t know can I belief you any more.
Your total commitment to equality amongst your drivers was in question after your announcement that you (and Hamilton) are racing against Alonso. What was that? I thought that Alonso was one of your drivers!
I can imagine the smile on Jan Todt face after your letter and confession. I can imagine the smile on Ferrari tifosi’s faces after this letter. Until two days ago, they were a bed guys, in love with bed ugly Italian team. Forza Ferrari.
Those that defended your McLaren so vigorously must really feel like complete idiots! You give them nice Christmas present.
Where is your INTEGRITY now! Sir Ron!
Now, you want to apologize and make nice with the FIA (and Ferrari)?
I'd like to believe the apology to be genuine.

"We had no idea this had become so widespread".

But I can’t.
Now, I think is a time to you to apologize to your fans. And, more inportant, to all F1 followers!
Sincerely your,
Seas

[Sawtooth-spike]

[checkered]

What is that auditory

disturbance being projected at my general direction? It seems to be persistent and intentional in nature. It does require a sufficient percentage of my perception to render itself impossible to be ignored. This is highly irregular.



An identification of its point of origin is required to ascertain whether this phenomenon is intelligible. It is also within the realm of possibilities that an active approach might hasten the realisation of the ultimately finite aspect of said disturbance.



It seems to be a compound reaction by a Croatian Formula One aficionado as to the entirety of public adversities faced and partially generated by the entity I strive to coordinate in a competitive environment in order to generate synergy and added value with individual human elements who have complementary skills and thus can employ their strengths and suppress their weaknesses in a common purpose. This is potentially a thoroughly unnerving subjective and psychosocial position to try and assume to justify direct dialogue, reciprocal responsibility is hard to attain in attempting to generate and deliver a mutually satisfactory response for such a personalised, public and possibly emotionally biased approach in a situation where it is overwhelmingly impropable that a sufficient amount of relevant raw data alone is shared in order to establish anything even approaching cognitive symmetry, let alone parity.



I will need an immediate interim solution while the team's and sport's temporal limitations inhibit an elementary response that can only be realised in a logical sequence of actions relating to the general parameters of expectations and environment and perceived mainly in future retrospect. Meanwhile I will direct Matt Bishop to invest an adequate amount of resources in investigating and implementing solutions to containing immediate anomalous disturbances of this nature. Solution found.

-----

More seriously, I of course value Ron Dennis' participation in F1 despite his most recent trials. I hope and believe that his presence within the sport remains a choice of his own. And I hope his decision is to remain McLaren's team boss for some time to come. I think I'd rather like to see good racing, good fun and brilliant engineering than apologies.

(Images linked from periodistadigital.com, nzz.ch, static.blogo.it and sportard.wdr.de)

[manchild]

......
Now, I think is a time to you to apologize to your fans. And, more inportant, to all F1 followers!
Sincerely your,
Seas

Oh he'll do that as soon as Jean Todt apologizes to F1 fans for shamelessly fixing Austrian GP in 2002. It's been 5 years and Todt is still silent so you'll have to wait at least till 2013 to hear Ron apologizing.

Fixing races is what all fans hate but WMSC describes fixing as

The Council also recognised the long-standing and traditional right of a team to decree the finishing order of its drivers in what it believes to be the best interest of its attempt to win both world championships.

Enjoy the "sport" of the long-standing and traditional right of a team to decree the finishing order and don't deny other team to enjoy rights guaranteed to your favorite team. Cheating is prohibited to all but one.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 02-01.html

[Seas]

......
Now, I think is a time to you to apologize to your fans. And, more inportant, to all F1 followers!
Sincerely your,
Seas

Oh he'll do that as soon as Jean Todt apologizes to F1 fans for shamelessly fixing Austrian GP in 2002. It's been 5 years and Todt is still silent so you'll have to wait at least till 2013 to hear Ron apologizing.

Fixing races is what all fans hate but WMSC describes fixing as

The Council also recognised the long-standing and traditional right of a team to decree the finishing order of its drivers in what it believes to be the best interest of its attempt to win both world championships.

Enjoy the "sport" of the long-standing and traditional right of a team to decree the finishing order and don't deny other team to enjoy rights guaranteed to your favorite team. Cheating is prohibited to all but one.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 02-01.html

Completely agree with you manchild. All cheating in all teams for me is the same. But you have to admit that Ferrari did not steal anything from anybody. What they did was between his drivers and inside the team. Don’t take me wrong, I’m not defending them. This day 2002 I was filling sick like all F1 fans.

[modbaraban]

This day 2002 I was filling sick like all F1 fans.

This is Formula 1

Do you feel sick when you see videos of say 50-s with the #2 being stopped his team the hand his car over to #1 whose car got broke?

The golden age of greats like Fangio, the true racing, no wings - no fear etc....

PS: Dennis (double N)

[dumrick]

This day 2002 I was filling sick like all F1 fans.

This is Formula 1

Do you feel sick when you see videos of say 50-s with the #2 being stopped his team the hand his car over to #1 whose car got broke?

The golden age of greats like Fangio, the true racing, no wings - no fear etc....

PS: Dennis (double N)

Better, some of the most touching examples of sportmanship came from drivers that did it without being requested to do so.
As much as I dislike the Mafia-like culture and politics of Ferrari, that day they were just doing their job and they should have done it in the open. It was the ridiculous attempt to conceal what they had the right to do that generated all the fuzz and forced the FIA to regulate team tactics (as it was even possible...).

On topic, what sense does this thread do?

[manchild]

Seas, Mclaren didn't steal anything from Ferrari just as Ferrari didn't steal anything from Mclaren. Both teams received data from rival team members with only difference that Mcalren was punished for it while other teams weren't...

modbaraban, In 1956 when Fagio was battling for the title with his team-mate Peter Collins. Fagio's car broke down in lap 18. At that time, teams were allowed to use more than one driver in a single car. Third driver Luigi Musso refused to hand his car to Fangio (Musso was pioneering the way for 21st century "sportsmanship"). That meant that Collins, on third position, stood to win the title. But when he pitted on lap 35 and saw Fangio standing watching, in a supreme act of sportsmanship he jumped out and offered his car. Fagio took it finished second clinching the title. Asked why he had done that, Collins replied, “Because Fangio deserved it.”

Now and than, same name - "F1" but no resemblance at all (well except Musso and Schuey).

[modbaraban]

The only difference in what happened in Austrian Grand Prix 2002 and what was happening before that is that sensitive Rubens couldn't get over it like other drivers did (and do) and refused to yield for MS until the last lap where he made it so obvious for the crowd, to show everyone how cruelly mistreated he was.

That happens and happened all the time. The drivers of the team work for the team. The team orders are just treated in a way to make them less obvious for the crowd now. They aren't banned in fact.
I remember Martin Brundle saying that he (negotiating some contracts) knows quite well that teams don't necessarily need to order a driver to move aside for the teammate or pit in order to let him pass. Team orders are usually enclosed in the contracts.

manchild, you picked just one exceptional example. Also (just in case) by no means I wanted to sound bad about Fangio! It's just that the yesterday-better-than-today 'song' is older than F1.


Sorry. I usually avoid such topics.

EDIT: a funny coincidence highlighted this image on my screen 5 mins ago

[dumrick]

The only difference in what happened in Austrian Grand Prix 2002 and what was happening before that is that sensitive Rubens couldn't get over it like other drivers did (and do) and refused to yield for MS until the last lap where he made it so obvious for the crowd, to show everyone how cruelly mistreated he was.

Is that fair? When Senna gifted the 1991 Japanese GP to Berger, he also did it in the last lap. Put simply, that was not an issue back then, and few humans have so much pride as F1 drivers, making that such offers would be done, but usually the driver would make it obvious that he could be ahead, if he wanted.

[nae]

the senna / berger thing was just the driver and not team orders iirc

he had already won the championship and was just saying thanks

[Belatti]

The differences between Fangio, Senna and Schumacher are BIG

First of all, Fangio was so much respected that there are many cases where drivers and rivals showed him their respect, when he won 1957 Nurburgring GP their rivals took him on shoulders and where cheering him and next year in Fangio´s last GP the winner (Think that was Hawthorn) didn´t want to lap him because it would be a lack of respect.

Then, Senna´s episode in 1991 Japanese GP was just a recognition to Berger for his effort helping him all through the year, with the title already defined towards Senna.

At last, Schumacher... already with 2 championships won in Ferrari, with a noticeable "faster than the rest" car, with big advantage in points with other teams, with a big advantage in points with his teammate AND with the championship NOT defined yet, we had to see that crap and then him inviting Rubens to step up to the 1st place of the podium. Why you didnt slow down too, Michael? Where you afraid of not winning the title that year? It was that hard for you?´

The only thing I can think now is Rubens lack of balls, maybe he should have watched 1981 Brazilian GP, even if that cost him the title (that was obviously going to loose) and your place, he would be respected.

[dumrick]

Sorry to disagree, I was disappointed like all of you with the outcome of the Austrian GP in 2002. However, it was only a decision that Ferrari did, that could be justified or not (IIRC, Schumacher was already far ahead in the championship), but that was a legitimate decision and was to be respected by the drivers. In 2002, having seen already 20 years of F1 before that, that was a perfectly natural thing to watch and happen, it's how the game was played until the stupid FIA decision of limiting team's scope for decision.


Let me be straight: I see drivers as a HR element from a team. The most valuable, precious and expensive, but just another human resource. You lose a race from driver's error, but also if the guy that does the logistic picking list skips a fundamental item. Everyone is inter-dependent. What I don't get is that drivers sometimes don't work for the benefit of a team and for the sponsors that pay them royally. That's what I call lack of professionalism.

[modbaraban]

Let me be straight: I see drivers as a HR element from a team. The most valuable, precious and expensive, but just another human resource. You lose a race from driver's error, but also if the guy that does the logistic picking list skips a fundamental item. Everyone is inter-dependent. What I don't get is that drivers sometimes don't work for the benefit of a team and for the sponsors that pay them royally. That's what I call lack of professionalism.

Exactly.

Belatti, I never intended to compare Fangio, Senna and MS! I just said that ...... (read dumrick's quote above) ....... and pointed out that it has always been like that.

[Giblet]

Welcome back ManChild. You were one of the reasons I kept reading this forum, and knew you'd be back.

Cheers, and don't F-Off again,

Giblet