Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Joseki]

Here in Italy some respectable sites and sources are saying that the new Honda unit is still giving problems to the guys at Sakura on the dynos and that is underpowered compared to the new units from Ferrari and Mercedes. I'm not saying it's true but I'm reporting it anyway.

[GoranF1]

Here in Italy some respectable sites and sources are saying that the new Honda unit is still giving problems to the guys at Sakura on the dynos and that is underpowered compared to the new units from Ferrari and Mercedes. I'm not saying it's true but I'm reporting it anyway.

Just when we tought day couldnt get any worse.....

[Jef Patat]

I don't know where these media get their sources but generally engine comparisons are done with gps data. Those are not available yet. And dynos? Leaks of that kind of data of several teams? Not likely. That being said, let's hope we don't have to see this:

[proteus]

Here in Italy some respectable sites and sources are saying that the new Honda unit is still giving problems to the guys at Sakura on the dynos and that is underpowered compared to the new units from Ferrari and Mercedes. I'm not saying it's true but I'm reporting it anyway.

Hasegawa himself confirmed that. Aparently the engine has not achieved Mercedes power output of last season.

[Goran2812]

And yet on other links and sites and interviews he says the level of mercedes final spec 2016 has been reached... make up your minds guys... this is getting silly

[hurril]

And yet on other links and sites and interviews he says the level of mercedes final spec 2016 has been reached... make up your minds guys... this is getting silly

These are not the contradictions they would appear to be at first glance. They could be at PU106C level on the dyno with parts and optimisations that will not be on, well: in, the car until later in the season because... reasons.

[Redragon]

After a new design structure unit on winter, to be able to run the 4 days next week withbig time in the box resolving issues would be a total success then they can think of how close they are to Merc in terms of power.

[godlameroso]

From 2014-2016 Mercedes gained on average about .6 seconds per season, whether that was due to the chassis or engine, is not clear. Let's say .4 was the gain of the engine, so assuming they've made a similar step for this year, and Honda made a similar improvement from 2015 to 2016, I'd say they're not miles away like they have been, but they're still quite a ways back. Possibly ~.5 is the difference in the power unit if things go according to plan(they never do), so the rest will depend on the chassis, which is the biggest question mark. If McLaren Honda start the season .6 off Mercedes, then they can stand a fighting chance of making up some ground throughout the season, and podiums are not unrealistic. That is of course if Red Bull don't run away with it, which is a possibility.

I think they'll nip at the heels of the top 3 teams at the start, and hopefully join that party somewhere down the line. Imagine them being a solid upper midfield team and then turn up at Suzuka, where they've experienced so much heart ache and frustration, and then go on to qualify top 3 on merit.

[gruntguru]

Following suggestions that Mercedes has made an 'unprecedented' step with its 2017 power unit, after a major overhaul of its design, Hasegawa was well aware that Honda could find itself still with plenty of work to do.

"I heard Mercedes also did a very great job, which is very unfortunate," he said.

I am confused but this last comment. Why would you say its unfortunate that Mercedes has made a step over the winter...did they expect them to stand still?

They would expect MB to make incremental gains. An "unprecedented" step is something no one would expect.

[ringo]

I would take 2016 Mercedes power any day of the week.
That is competitive power even by the 2017 engine standards. I know for sure the 2017 mercedes doesn't have 20 or 30 hp more than last year's engine, so if honda has 20hp less that is actually not a bad position to be in.

[Sasha]

MB went with a heavier/stronger PU because it will have to survive more stress.They expect to be more full throttle per lap with the new cars.So their big improvements will be by order...

1)reliability
2)better efficiency
3)better ERS mapping/engagement
4)ICE power

So expect a little improvement in max power but a better overall product.(be able to put power down better/smoother and run
at full power more than others)

Honda/Ferrari/Renault might equal their power but are still behind on the full package.

[bosyber]

From what I read, Hasegawa said Honda are happy with the new layout of the engine, and confident they can now make good progress.

Also, that they are at this moment not yet at their goal for Melbourne, but will be by the time of the race: being on par with where Mercedes was in 2016 in that race, ie. at the start of the season.

With that, they expect to be making good gains through the year. Enough to be competitive? That is where he said hearing (via Force India) that Mercedes made an unexpectedly good step in performance too, was unfortunate.

[mwillems]

From what I read, Hasegawa said Honda are happy with the new layout of the engine, and confident they can now make good progress.

Also, that they are at this moment not yet at their goal for Melbourne, but will be by the time of the race: being on par with where Mercedes was in 2016 in that race, ie. at the start of the season.

With that, they expect to be making good gains through the year. Enough to be competitive? That is where he said hearing (via Force India) that Mercedes made an unexpectedly good step in performance too, was unfortunate.

I don't think he specified the Australia race last year There is some uncertainty among articles as to whether he is referring to the end or the start of the season. But when asked if they could bridge the gap to Merc, this was his response:

"Not at the moment I think because I don't know how much gain Mercedes is hoping to make," Hasegawa said. "But of course we are aiming to achieve the top level of the PU, which is Mercedes at this moment, but we don't know how much power they are making now. But I am feeling that we are not behind from them, but I think we will catch up [with Mercedes' 2016 performance] at the beginning of the season."

Because he specifically refers to the power difference between the end of the last season and the start of this new season, his targets then seem relative to the current Merc output range, not from the start of last season. At least that is how I understand it.

As I recall, did Wazari not also say (some time ago) that the power output targets for the beginning of this season were to be to match or exceed the power of the Merc at the end of last season?

In any case, power is not all. If it is not fuel efficient, or does not finish a race, it doesn't matter so much. Some answers will come next week and some long running will be a welcome sign. But with a "90%" new engine, they surely will not fully understand it as they would like in real world conditions. So the questions for me are not power, but will it last. Can McLaren fully utilise that initial testing period or sit on the sidelines fixing leaks.

I would rather an engine slightly slower but that can run, at this stage, than something 30hp quicker that explodes. Without tokens, it seems to me that the focus is not now so much on getting power and adding reliability later, but that reliability for this engine is more important from the start than it has been in the past (For McLaren Honda's situation at least).

Bear in mind also that the rear of the McLaren seemed to prevent the power getting transferred down efficiently and that with a very good chassis like Red Bull, it is possible to be a strong competitor with (allegedly) the third best engine.

[Joseki]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 9006224384 That's the original source.

[bigblue]

Three minute interview with Mr. Hasegawa - nothing earth shattering, but mentions the engine is lighter with a lower centre of gravity than last year's.



https://youtu.be/ytvSpaheaBY