Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[RS200E]

In 2016 this is where i had my numbers.
Mercedes were 950hp to 960
Ferrari 935
Renault 930
Honda 900 to 910

We know honda did break 900hp last year. It was quoted by someone who i do not remember at this time.

Wazari previously confirmed honda and renault were within single digits on peak bhp.

I would have put Ferrari on par with Merc for peak power, maybe even slightly ahead, then renault and honda even, both maybe 30-40bhp behind.

How did you figure that Ferrari have more power than Mercedes?

[PlatinumZealot]

I been thinking. Since the 2017 power unit is an all new design, would it be a good idea to start a new thread? The discussion for the 2015 and 2016 units have been exhausted till the thread has been littered with all sorts of other general topics.

[GoranF1]

How reaible were specs 0.1 and 0.2 then?

[dashboard107k]

1.0 being Melbourne?

TBD, 1.0 or 1.1

4. I am still excited about this season. I am optimistic, anxious and happy with the new PU. Spec 0.8, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1.

PU working at 80%, 90%? Melbourne at 100% or 110% power!!!

[GhostF1]

Wow Goran... you are relentless with the questions.

Thankyou for even answering what little you could say Wazari! It is very much appreciated by everyone I am sure.

Good luck for the rest of the month with the anxious lead up to Melbourne for you guys, not long to go! Seeing Honda's progress over the last couple years has no doubt been stressful for you guys with everything you do being so publicly scrutinised but it's been mouth watering for a tech nerd like myself haha.

[gruntguru]

https://youtu.be/ODGPhiQasdM
Listen @1 min 11 sec

NIce example of some serious cylinder skipping at part load.

Is that a bad thing? (I genuinely dont know). I've heard even the Merc doing that though.

There are many reasons to use cylinder skipping to reduce power rather than throttling, boost reduction or leaning.

1. Additional leaning moves the combustion conditions away from the optimum (peak efficiency) AFR.
2. Boost reduction moves the combustion conditions away from the optimum (peak efficiency) pressure and temperature.
3. Throttling causes boost reduction but also increases pumping losses.

[Roostfactor]

I been thinking. Since the 2017 power unit is an all new design, would it be a good idea to start a new thread? The discussion for the 2015 and 2016 units have been exhausted till the thread has been littered with all sorts of other general topics.

Fresh start for fresh concept. I like it! Please make sure you post that you started it here so I dont keep looking in the wrong place.

[coco-bun]

Just wanted to share another Japanese article with Hasegawa quotes I haven't seen in European / English media.

長谷川総責任者は「それ（パワーユニット交換を強いられたトラブル）はもちろん、頭の痛い問題です。ただ原因が根本的にわかっていなくても、部位は特定できてます。ですので来週のテストに向けては、その部分を強くするなど、信頼性アップのため何らかの対策を施すことになるでしょう」と述べる。

Which a quick and dirty translation would be something like... "The trouble (that caused them to change the power unit... I'm guessing the one after 29 laps on day 2) is definitely causing headaches. Although we're still looking into the root cause of the issue, we know the general area that is causing it. So for next week's test, we'll have to increase reliability somehow, for example by strengthening that area."

I'd more than happy to translate the whole article if google translate doesn't make sense (but I'm slightly busy... so please don't expect an immediate turnaround).

This is just my opinion, but sounds like they are closing in to finding the cause of the 'dead cylinder' comment from few days ago (see the article I translated here). Hopefully we'll see a stronger performance from them. Also, some context and meaning seems to get lost in translation, there's even an article on this with quotes from Hasegawa, so I'm starting to go directly to Japanese media and articles for Honda related news. If you guys are interested, I'll keep on posting interesting bits as I come across them.

[dr_cooke]

1.0 being Melbourne?

TBD, 1.0 or 1.1

4. I am still excited about this season. I am optimistic, anxious and happy with the new PU. Spec 0.8, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1.

PU working at 80%, 90%? Melbourne at 100% or 110% power!!!

1.0 was for sure target for season start. 0.8 and 0.9 two "unfinished" previous steps for testing. IF they are considering 1.1 for Melbourne, that means that either they have been forced to modify their intended 1.0 fearing bad reliability and they are rushing for it (bad) or... they are so confident with what they see that they feel capable of skipping 1.0 and bringing first in-season update already to Melbourne (very good)

[kasio]

My inbox has been flooded. Sorry can not answer you all but seems centered on a few things.

1. Yes I am extremely busy. People can bash away. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
2. I have been asked as others too, not to comment on any status as to specific problems or items. In general, mood at Sakura is very good, believe it or not. Many expected and unexpected setbacks but it appears nothing major. As I mentioned to others via PM, oil scavenging issue was under heavy braking, why this became an issue, I don't know, obviously either a design issue or manufacturing issue.
3. Is Sasha real??? Haha. I will say this, he knew the owner's name of a small restaurant in Sakura where the locals go that's been there since the '60's and completely off the grid. Also knew of the small grocery, convenience store up the hill behind the restaurant that unless you were a local and have been to Sakura, you would never know about it. The road isn't on the map. It's seems strange to me, all these people asking about him lately???
4. I am still excited about this season. I am optimistic, anxious and happy with the new PU. Spec 0.8, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1.

Best wishes everyone.

Why was Honda PU during 1st test whit less power than in AD 2016?

Why didnt Honda see oil tank problem in their state of art Dyno benches?

What is Honda's plan to find 80hp gap from 2016 to Mercedes and 70hp Mercedes find for 2017?

Is it normal that a team drives so litlle during tests due to engine problems, when there is only 4 days of tests per driver?

Is it true Honda 2017 ERS system is not efficient enough?

If Mclaren Honda does not make it out of Q1 in AUS, will it be more because of Honda or Mclaren(in your opinion)

Is Honda happy whit Mclaren chassis during Test1?

Why were Mclaren drivers last in speed traps during Test 1?

If engine was detuned in Test1, by how much was it?

apparently it does not matter. if you read info provided before in this forum it was stated that they are wery short on time to finish it all till testing. for me it looks good enough answer to all those q.

[ALO_Power]

Good info from Wazari. By the way, come on Merc can't be 70hp stronger than last year. For sure they will make progress but they should make the smallest progress than any other P.U manufacturer since they already have the top P.U .

[GoranF1]

Good info from Wazari. By the way, come on Merc can't be 70hp stronger than last year. For sure they will make progress but they should make the smallest progress than any other P.U manufacturer since they already have the top P.U .

When in winter of 2014 someone said one team is 100hp ahead, everyone tought it was a joke as well.
Yes,Merceses has found 70hp from last year.

[GoranF1]

...
apparently it does not matter. if you read info provided before in this forum it was stated that they are wery short on time to finish it all till testing. for me it looks good enough answer to all those q.

Absolutly no excuse for Honda in 3rd year, they had time they had money, lets see what they did in AUS.

[henry]

Just wanted to share another Japanese article with Hasegawa quotes I haven't seen in European / English media.

長谷川総責任者は「それ（パワーユニット交換を強いられたトラブル）はもちろん、頭の痛い問題です。ただ原因が根本的にわかっていなくても、部位は特定できてます。ですので来週のテストに向けては、その部分を強くするなど、信頼性アップのため何らかの対策を施すことになるでしょう」と述べる。

Which a quick and dirty translation would be something like... "The trouble (that caused them to change the power unit... I'm guessing the one after 29 laps on day 2) is definitely causing headaches. Although we're still looking into the root cause of the issue, we know the general area that is causing it. So for next week's test, we'll have to increase reliability somehow, for example by strengthening that area."

I'd more than happy to translate the whole article if google translate doesn't make sense (but I'm slightly busy... so please don't expect an immediate turnaround).

This is just my opinion, but sounds like they are closing in to finding the cause of the 'dead cylinder' comment from few days ago (see the article I translated here). Hopefully we'll see a stronger performance from them. Also, some context and meaning seems to get lost in translation, there's even an article on this with quotes from Hasegawa, so I'm starting to go directly to Japanese media and articles for Honda related news. If you guys are interested, I'll keep on posting interesting bits as I come across them.

Thanks for that.

If it is thought that a solution can be found quickly by strengthening an area ( and thus increasing its weight) does this suggest it is not one of they key moving assemblies where such a change would propagate other changes because of vibrations?

I for one enjoy seeing direct reports from the Japanese press so thanks again.

[bigblue]

You see! You just need to be aske same queation a few times to get an an answer....you answered my qustion 1 in answer 9.

I wouldn't hyper-analyse the comments, just seems there are some problems, mood is good so current thoughts are no show-stoppers (after initial investigations of the broken engine, though investigations continue so things could change), and there's quite a bit more to come in terms of performance. That's it.

Edited : to remove some pointless technicality I brought up