Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[drunkf1fan]

A very good move for both. Sauber can reduce costs even more and even if the engine won't be the best next year it won't change anything for them, while Honda gets double data.

Unless Honda are giving it to them for free, I don't see how it really helps Sauber.

As I see it Sauber got their only points last year due to reliability and ending up in the points, it's really their only chance this year or next year either. Getting a slower and less reliable engine that I simply don't think has even an outside shot at being competitive till 2019, seems like a truly awful decision.

My guess would be they were only offered a one year deal for 2016 Ferrari engines because Ferrari knew they were moving to Honda and were unwilling to offer a 2017 engine for Honda to get ideas and data from through Sauber. Probably a case of Sauber could have current Ferrari engines if and only if they sign a 3 year engine deal.

Saving some cash, but giving up the reliability they desperately need to get some lucky points which are crucial to getting some coverage and getting more sponsorship cash, seems like a bad deal. They have also shown to do pretty poorly in making a car in recent years, meaning a better engine probably offers better performance gain per £ spent.

It's great for Honda, they've needed the extra mileage/running since the start, but it seems like nothing but downsides to Sauber. Unless Honda are once again signing up to an insane deal, free engines plus 10-20mil sponsorship and paying towards drivers.... in which I can understand Sauber going for it but I can't imagine Honda signing up to another utterly one sided deal.

[PlatinumZealot]

Now the problem with vibrations is from gearbox??.


The identity of this vibration is thought to be caused by the resonance including the driving system of the engine, the gear box, the tribe shaft and the vibration of the tire. In other words, it was not generated by PU alone.

This is quite sad on the part of McLaren! I had immediately ruled out resonance in the engine when it was suggested by a poster because that is usually picked up quite easily! And it would be outright careless of Honda to know it and provide the engine in such a state. Resonance problems can be designed out relatively easily too. But damn now we know the McLaren gearbox when combined with the engine and running gear produce the vibration. Sad. I reckon the complete drive train was never tested at all together until winter testing! And possibly not even simulated together in the computer! man oh man. McLaren needs to get their stuff together man.

[dren]

I don't care about Honda so much.

I am concerned as to what it would do to Sauber.

I don't think it'll do much to Sauber considering where they have been the last few years. I do think it'll be interesting to potentially have a measuring stick to Mclaren's "we would win with a Merc PU" chassis.

The 2014 PU was bad and it nearly killed them off as a team.

Aren't funds going to be allocated differently going forward?

If they sign with Honda, financially it has to make sense to take the performance hit based on what the PUs will cost.

[wuzak]

I don't think it'll do much to Sauber considering where they have been the last few years. I do think it'll be interesting to potentially have a measuring stick to Mclaren's "we would win with a Merc PU" chassis.

The 2014 PU was bad and it nearly killed them off as a team.

Aren't funds going to be allocated differently going forward?

If they sign with Honda, financially it has to make sense to take the performance hit based on what the PUs will cost.

Probably not in the next year or so.

[wuzak]

My guess would be they were only offered a one year deal for 2016 Ferrari engines because Ferrari knew they were moving to Honda and were unwilling to offer a 2017 engine for Honda to get ideas and data from through Sauber. Probably a case of Sauber could have current Ferrari engines if and only if they sign a 3 year engine deal.

My understanding is that Sauber asked for the 2016 engines because they could get them cheaper and they knew all the physical parameters of the engine which gave them the extra time and money to develop the chassis rather than developing a new installation.

[dren]

More rumors

As an independent manufacturer, Ilmor will participate in the Paris meeting. After the separation from Renault works ex-Mercedes-Motorpapst Mario Illien after information from AUTO BILD MOTORSPORT now for McLaren. Apparently, the British tradition, which is desperate for the new Honda engine, can imagine its own engine.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 24171.html

Is that saying Mclaren is going to build a PU with Ilmor or is the translation bad at it means Ilmor is helping out Honda?

[diffuser]

Pretty sure this deal has been in place since 2015. When Ron said that Sauber would be a better choice than RBR for Honda to supply PU to, the deal was already done. Honda even mentioned they were waiting for their UK facilities to come online to supply another team.

[diffuser]

More rumors

As an independent manufacturer, Ilmor will participate in the Paris meeting. After the separation from Renault works ex-Mercedes-Motorpapst Mario Illien after information from AUTO BILD MOTORSPORT now for McLaren. Apparently, the British tradition, which is desperate for the new Honda engine, can imagine its own engine.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 24171.html

Is that saying Mclaren is going to build a PU with Ilmor or is the translation bad at it means Ilmor is helping out Honda?

Ilmor is helping Honda. That's why they broke up with Simon.

[loner]

i think Ilmor helped with this
http://en.f1i.com/news/57860-honda-surp ... spend.html

[Wil992]

Ok, maybe a bad translation, but it says working with mclaren and "can imagine its own engine", which definitely can be interpreted as mclaren developing an engine in house. Does anyone have a translation that's better than google's, or so,e concrete info?
On a related note, and apologies if this is stupid or too far off topic, why doesn't mclaren build their own engine? They could hardly be in a worse position than they are now? Is it just budget?
Thanks.

[Jef Patat]

...
I reckon the complete drive train was never tested at all together until winter testing! And possibly not even simulated together in the computer! man oh man. McLaren needs to get their stuff together man.

Well, that would make sense since no engine was available any earlier. They need to get their stuff together together, work as one team. Their working next to each other it seems. Most probably the drivetrain is ok without the engine, as is the engine without the rest of the drivetrain I would suppose. But together they finish last.

[GoranF1]

More rumors

Is that saying Mclaren is going to build a PU with Ilmor or is the translation bad at it means Ilmor is helping out Honda?

Ilmor is helping Honda. That's why they broke up with Simon.

As i said 2 weeks ago....

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/gzoneStudios/status ... 5870430209

[alexa]

...
On a related note, and apologies if this is stupid or too far off topic, why doesn't mclaren build their own engine? They could hardly be in a worse position than they are now? Is it just budget?
Thanks.

RB did consider to build they own engines, calculations showed they would need billions + time to do that.Eventually they decided to stick with the Renault.

[ollandos]

Pretty sure this deal has been in place since 2015. When Ron said that Sauber would be a better choice than RBR for Honda to supply PU to, the deal was already done. Honda even mentioned they were waiting for their UK facilities to come online to supply another team.

yea honda need 25+ engines per year for second team ...