2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Chuckjr]

Since folks in here seem to know more than anyone else on the planet, i would like to ask, is it really feasible that Macca switches to Merc for next year? Or is that some kind of pipe dream? With all the money involved and contracts etc, is it even reasonable that such a thing could happen? Really. It's already embarrassing for Honda, and that would be an even deeper embarrassment. Maybe that does not matter, but I don't know as I don't know that culture.

I ask because it's a lot deeper than just frustration with what is going on, as we are literally seeing the demise of arguably the best driver of this generation, possibly many others, all because of this situation. If given even the opportunity to come within .4 second of the leaders, Fred is a driver that can close that gap just as Hamilton did back in his early days when Macca was giving him a car that was not quite as fast as the Bull. I selfishly would like the opportunity to see Fred be at least given a car capable of being within .4 second of the Merc, and now Ferrari, before his age simply will no longer allow him to close the gap. Macca certainly has the technological prowess and money to give it a much better go than the Williams, imo. No offense at all to Williams--I'm a huge fan of that team.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Contracts can easily be torn up, and the McLaren Honda contract almost certainly will. Sauber will run the Honda engines next year to keep them in the sport, McLaren are almost certainly going to switch back to Mercedes. Honda may have a contract with McLaren, but what's the point in continuing if the other party doesn't want to anymore? Sauber will be more than happy with the cheap engine supply, and Honda can continue to develop their engine without the constant public criticism.

It was a gamble, it could have paid off, at which point everyone would be lauding McLaren as geniuses for making the move to Honda. However, it hasn't worked and McLaren can't afford to wait any longer, they've already lost sponsorship and prize money and they look set to lose their star driver.

[Mekki]

Switching back to Mercedes would be a pretty short term and therefor stupid decision. Another 2+ years of built up and adopting the car to the new engine while still not getting the best engine (compared to the works team).

Honda will get that engine working eventually. Its a matter if time. I know that Mclaren is running out of time but why waste the last 3 years of struggeling to go back to Mercedes and still not be able to win championships.

My gut feeling says that within 1 year the Honda will be at least on par.

Think abput that scenario: Mclaren announcing switching back to Mercedes engines for 2018 while Honda PU starts to deliver at the end of this season. Considering ALOs poor team choices throughout his entire career this might really happen.

[mclaren111]

If he had a car that could put him in the points this wouldn't be an issue. Sure it's petty but we want Alonso to win the driver's championship not the humanitarian of the year award. Sooo why do we care?

Tbh I don't really care but I was correcting an incorrect assumption

It was quoted by Hasegawa that it was a software fault in the ERS and restarting on track didn't work. Alonso's radio he actually says he tried multiple times. They probably sorted it the moment it was backed into the garage for all we know, but by then it would of been pointless running.

Should then treat it as a test !!!

[Vasconia]

Switching back to Mercedes would be a pretty short term and therefor stupid decision. Another 2+ years of built up and adopting the car to the new engine while still not getting the best engine (compared to the works team).

Brawn showed that if you have a great chasis it can happen. OK, it won´t be the most updated Mercedes PU but it will be a powerful and realiable one. If McLaren can really build a race winner chasis they could make something good.

Sauber having Honda engines is what was the most logic thing to happen, in 2015. First, build a good engine with a little team, without such a big pressure, then sign with a big one.

[keroro.90]

Switching back to Mercedes would be a pretty short term and therefor stupid decision. Another 2+ years of built up and adopting the car to the new engine while still not getting the best engine (compared to the works team).

Brawn showed that if you have a great chasis it can happen. OK, it won´t be the most updated Mercedes PU but it will be a powerful and realiable one. If McLaren can really build a race winner chasis they could make something good.

Sauber having Honda engines is was the most logic thing to happen, in 2015. First, build a good engine with a little team, without such a big pressure, then sign with a big one.

I think there were to much pressure on Alonso and on that periodo they strongly believed that their PU was strong enough....

[Peter1919]

Switching back to Mercedes would be a pretty short term and therefor stupid decision. Another 2+ years of built up and adopting the car to the new engine while still not getting the best engine (compared to the works team).

Brawn showed that if you have a great chasis it can happen. OK, it won´t be the most updated Mercedes PU but it will be a powerful and realiable one. If McLaren can really build a race winner chasis they could make something good.

That was in a chassis and aero dominated period of F1 though, we are currently in a period where the engine is the most important. So unless McClaren's chassis and aero can be made better than Mercs to make up the difference in being a Merc customer compare to their works outfit with the best engine and fuel and oils etc for that engine then McClaren would be resigned to not winning the championship again unless engines become less important again in the furture.

[diffuser]

Contracts can easily be torn up, and the McLaren Honda contract almost certainly will. Sauber will run the Honda engines next year to keep them in the sport, McLaren are almost certainly going to switch back to Mercedes. Honda may have a contract with McLaren, but what's the point in continuing if the other party doesn't want to anymore? Sauber will be more than happy with the cheap engine supply, and Honda can continue to develop their engine without the constant public criticism.

It was a gamble, it could have paid off, at which point everyone would be lauding McLaren as geniuses for making the move to Honda. However, it hasn't worked and McLaren can't afford to wait any longer, they've already lost sponsorship and prize money and they look set to lose their star driver.

There was a strange line in the contract requested from Sauber that McLaren would be required to produce the Transmission EVEN if they changed PUs. So McLaren are under contract to supply the transmissions to Sauber for the Honda Pu. Just throwing that out there cause it's just another expense they'd have to incur. Designing and producing 2 different transmissions.

[dren]

Red Bull wasn't fighting the back makers when they had a Renault unit that was severely under powered. Take that for what it's worth.

Mclaren isn't dumping Honda. Honda is basically the main sponsor without being one. Mclaren needs the resources as much as they don't want to publicly admit. Plus, the PU will come good in due time.

[diffuser]

Tbh I don't really care but I was correcting an incorrect assumption

It was quoted by Hasegawa that it was a software fault in the ERS and restarting on track didn't work. Alonso's radio he actually says he tried multiple times. They probably sorted it the moment it was backed into the garage for all we know, but by then it would of been pointless running.

Should then treat it as a test !!!

First of all, he never read the posts,we weren't talking about about last Sunday's race.

I don't think the car ever made it back to the pits.

[mrluke]

Switching back to Mercedes would be a pretty short term and therefor stupid decision. Another 2+ years of built up and adopting the car to the new engine while still not getting the best engine (compared to the works team).

Brawn showed that if you have a great chasis it can happen. OK, it won´t be the most updated Mercedes PU but it will be a powerful and realiable one. If McLaren can really build a race winner chasis they could make something good.

Sauber having Honda engines is what was the most logic thing to happen, in 2015. First, build a good engine with a little team, without such a big pressure, then sign with a big one.

Mclaren don't have a great chassis.

Mclaren add a Mercedes engine in 2013 and 2014. In 2014 Mercedes arguably had their biggest advantage and yet Mclaren were soundly trounced by Williams.

Mclaren need to stop swapping and changing so much there isn't just one magic bullet that will put them at the front, they need to work up to it. If they aren't changing PU they are changing their CEO or technical director or aero team or even just the "fundamental car concept".

They need to settle down and work through it, not have another "Transition year" which has pretty much become a Mclaren trade mark.

All this isn't to say the Honda PU is the class of the field because it clearly isn't, however even Renault now have a decent PU, Honda won't be that far behind.

[Thunder]

Ahh the 2014 Argument again. Yes the Chassis wasn't great. But at the end of 2014 they rebuilt almost their whole Operation and have been quite stable since. So basically everything you ask for?

[SameSame]

The 2014 chassis logic relating to 2017 with a complete regulation overall is completely absurd. With that logic Ferrari still have a dog of an engine.

Realistically the performance gap is way too big to be overcome in this set of regulations. I don't think Honda are going to jump 100 bhp in one year. The most we have seen in season is from Renault which was about 40 bhp if I remember correctly.

[OneAlex]

I think realistically McLaren have made their bed and need to lay in it, for at least another year or two. Honda probably won't come good but miracles sometimes happen in F1, and ditching Honda without giving Brown time to get extra sponsorship money etc would be pretty suicidal.

Besides, we don't know if the engine regs will be massively overhauled in a few years or that Mercedes will stay dominant. Highly unlikely scenario but, McLaren Ferrari anyone? (just because personally I would love that combo)

HOWEVER, I feel the big question is, just because it makes sense to stick with Honda for now... Will the board be sensible? McLaren is owned by very rich autocratic men used to getting their own way and willing to make big changes and upend the team.

If the rumours about McLaren speaking to Mercedes are true, is it because patience at the top is thinning out pragmatism...

[diffuser]

Realistically, Honda should work out most of their issues this year. They should be able to have a PU that is atleast better than last years, this year.

From a marcro point of view they've made 5 changes

1- Moved the MGU-K lower on the PU
2- Moved the MGU-H to the Front of the PU
3- Changed Heads to TJI
4- Rewrote all the software
5- All the other changes to the block.

1 and 5 will be an improvement over the 2016 PU and I don't think they're having issues with those.
4 is a work in progress and will need modifications as the TJI comes on line.
2 and 3 are the really big problem areas.
From what I can gather MGU-H works fine when it works but it has had 3 issues ...bearing dissolving, water leak and a software issue. Any performance issues are as a result of the combustion issues.

TJI I don't know much more than it has issues major issues.