Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

The fixes for barcelona seemed to have brought the engine back where it was at the end of 2016 and a little better. From here onward it is about getting the real 2017 engine performance.

[gdogg371]

Have we seen anything this weekend that definitely points to improved engine performance? Could the shrinking of the gap to pole not just be because the Mclaren is a great chassis and the Barcelona circuit not requiring outright grunt? It would be a real disappointment if they get pasted again at the next out and out power track they hit...

[iichel]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

[Lucky]

Have we seen anything this weekend that definitely points to improved engine performance? Could the shrinking of the gap to pole not just be because the Mclaren is a great chassis and the Barcelona circuit not requiring outright grunt? It would be a real disappointment if they get pasted again at the next out and out power track they hit...

of course, this is due to the configuration of the track, but not at the expense of engine updates

[mwillems]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

Not forgetting increased fuel consumption as a result, leading to more fuel saving. Unfortunately this is likely to come into play again tomorrow, I think.

[loner]

The fixes for barcelona seemed to have brought the engine back where it was at the end of 2016 and a little better. From here onward it is about getting the real 2017 engine performance.

nope sir MC-H season will start with the upcoming updated PU.LOADING

[etusch]

I hope this can help their fuel comsumption

Honda Formula 1 boss Yusuke Hasegawa is unsure whether the Japanese manufacturer will be ready to introduce a major engine update for June's Canadian Grand Prix.

Honda has been working on significant revisions to its V6 engine in a bid to close a major power deficit to leading F1 engine manufacturers Mercedes and Ferrari, which Fernando Alonso estimates to be possibly more than 50bhp.

Honda has been struggling to successfully transfer experimental combustion technology from a single cylinder to six on its Sakura dynos without encountering problems.

It has sought extra help from independent engine consultant Ilmor and reportedly sounded out Mercedes too as part of a concerted effort to accelerate progress.

Although Honda originally hoped to have its first major performance update ready before next month, Hasegawa says he cannot be sure the update will be ready before F1 reaches Canada.

"Obviously Canada will be the power circuit, so if we can prepare the new engine, we'd like to," Hasegawa said. "But still I'm not sure that we can."

The Japanese firm has only changed engine maps and made reliability tweaks so far this season, though it introduced revisions to its induction and fuel system for Barcelona that Honda says has almost eliminated the driveability problems that have hurt McLaren's form over the first four races of 2017.

"Here the engine component is the same but there is an updated induction system and fuel system," Hasegawa added.

"The upgrade is a quite decent level of upgrade, but [with] the current gap to the top teams, we cannot be proud too much."

The 2017 Honda engine has been plagued by unreliability since first running in pre-season testing, with Stoffel Vandoorne forced to serve a grid penalty in Russia, Alonso failing to finish the last two races thanks to engine problems, and a further failure of his combustion engine forcing Alonso to stop on his first lap in Friday practice for this weekend's race in Spain.

Hasegewa said a mechanical problem with the oil system led to Friday's failure and he is confident there won't be a repeat in the race, where Alonso will start seventh after making Q3 for the first time this season.

"From the data we lost the oil first so the pressure went down and still the engine was running, so the engine was OK, but once the oil pressure was down then the engine was broken," Hasegawa explained.

"We are thinking the oil pressure drop was happening from some mechanical issue with the oil feed."

[godlameroso]

What are the chances that microwaves can be used to heat fuel, when needed of course.

[drunkf1fan]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

That is really really interesting, in that it looks almost word for word exactly like a post I made on reddit today... wait a sec, it literally is word for word the same post.

[Bence]

You're bilocating...

[diffuser]

Not sure where these people come from.

It has been quite well known in this thread, since winter testing, that the problem is the combustion. Has been acknowledged by honda as well. The KERS issue is as result of poor combustion. Please don't start rumours.

[Webber2011]

Men, give some credit to the car too. Alonso is a great driver, but the car has to be there too. Someone has the comparison of the speed traps? or a list of the max speeds? It would be nice to be able to compare them to know how much weight Honda has in this, and how much they have improved

Speed trap and sector speeds are available on the FIA website.
In the speed trap he is second from last, 4 kph faster than Vandoorne. Sector 1 he is near the bottom, S2 middle and S3 near bottom. Vandoorne is bottom in all 3.

Sorry, I'm new. Can you teach me how to get to the page with the speeds?

Hey mate, first you go here
http://www.fia.com/

Then scroll down and on the right under "Results" click on what ever Race you'd like to see the information for.

Then click "Event Timing and Information".

Once you are there its easy, all the sessions are listed and you can see what ever you want.

Hope this helps

[toraabe]

They're down 13kph from the fastest cars, so if they can gain half that it should equal an extra .15sec per straight.

Or nearly .4 per lap.

AT least they are shifting at 12k. And the oscillations seems to be cured. This means that the engine is able to be run in its optimum range and not above as until recently

[mwillems]

What are the chances that microwaves can be used to heat fuel, when needed of course.

Don't microwaves cause heat by friction and vibration of molecules? I'd think the fuel would explode. I'm assuming you mean outside the engine and not just banging a panasonic in place of a sparkplug.

I'd also imagine the power required to do it would be quite large. Why do that when you have your own heat source in the engine? Coolant exit pipes snaking round the fuel intake?

Also if there was an accident and it came loose, but was still working, microwaving a hand or two or setting fires in the car... not sure that it would be the best idea.

[harjan]

General assumption right on is that Renault is 35-40 bhp down on Merc/Ferrari in qualifying and Honda another 80 bhp.

So that chassis is performing quite ok. Let's hope Honda (with support of Merc) can find another 60 bhp then they could become best of the rest.