2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[marmer]

the problem going forward as far as i can see is a combination of failing parts on the engine and upgrades getting applied. constant grid pens for most of the season
14 McLaren Honda Fernando Alonso ICE 3 TC 5 MGU-H 5 MGU-K 3 ES 1 CE 1
02 McLaren Honda Stoffel Vandoorne ICE 2 TC 5 MGU-H 5 MGU-K 2 ES 5 CE 5
after the race
if we assume over the season they will improve every part of the engine and for least punishment the do it at the next race they would have a
10 place grid pen for alonso
15 place grid pen for Vandoorne

the problem for the rest of the season these parts have to last the rest of the season any more and they would drop back again. under perfect conditions all parts need to last 5 races 4 engines for 20 races. so all new parts would replacing by Belgium assuming none fail in the races between.

6 Races into the season Alonso has used 3 ICE so far assuming they are all still reusable they have done 2 races each on average (this may be very different on mileage per engine)
adding a new ICE for Canada they actually might avoid penalties on the ICE over a season if none fail and all manage 5 races (again if still working)
same but with a better chance for Vandoorne (assuming the 2 used are still working)

Turbos are the real problem currently they need 1 turbo every 1.2 races for both cars (assuming none of the 4 starting turbos still work) the current ones will fail next race used. and if they don't use them in Canada and add new they will get a 5 place pen anyway.
same story with the MGU-H

MGU-K is good news might avoid pens if they last the life they should if they are all still working.

EC and CE for Alonso is good and should make the end of the season easy. Vandoorne is looking at a few new parts over the season so most likely he will have a few 5 place pens or maybe two 10 place pens if they both fail at the same race.

if they manage to bring full upgrades to Canada it might be worth in the long run using Canada and the two races afterwards to take new engine pens giving them enough engines for the rest of the season plus any old parts left to help out

[diffuser]

It was an embarrasing mistake. Should have had the patience to warm up the tires and wait for a try on a safer moment. He's not driving for Sauber, he's driving for Mclaren, even if Mclaren is not in form right now, it's still that very same team.

Everybody knows that coming out of the safety car period cools down tires and thus less grip. You don't go banzai like that, especially that corner. Should have used either tactics or pushed his opponent into an error.

Still, a weekend to forget.

Did you watch/read any post race interview. Perez made a move on Vandoorne. You are saying the inverse. Perez dived to the inside and made it work. Stoffel got nowhere to go.

Well I would argue the mistake was leaving the inside open. Either way Vandoorne looked amateurish there.

[basti313]

Remember I'm just talking about the Chassis ability(so forget all the other stuff that happened).
You should not overthink Monaco...especially this year it was about tire usage. And we already had pages of discussions about what Chassis actually means and how you can distinguish it from Aero.
Here we have a clear picture: The McLaren war set up to be as hard as possible to the tires, Button's SS was done after 35laps and he lost contact to the Sauber...this surely helped to warm up the tires for Q. Teams battling for podiums can not do this and on another track you can not do these stunts either. So not much to read into the "Chassis"

Vandoorne did a 1:13.249 and Ricardo a 1:12.998. ALO has been a Min of .3 faster than Vandoorne. Monaco is a short track which makes the .3 harder to make up but V is a rookie at Monaco which is big.

Van was driving quite often and good in Monaco in other series. I can picture Alo being behind Ric, but I do not see the McLaren doing a 1:12 in anyone hands.

[Big Mangalhit]

So you are sure we could have McLaren on podium? I think that is very very much optimistic. Even if he would qualify 3 which is already quite some feat I think during the race the Mclaren pace drops a lot in compound mode. so he would be susceptible to overtakes in the pit, either he would cover and undercut or overcut but both red bulls and saint would have the pace to make it work. Some points would be attainable maybe and that is already something.

Also I am not even talking about the MGU-H penalty, I doubt he could overtake the whole field from the pit lane.

Remember I'm just talking about the Chassis ability(so forget all the other stuff that happened).

Also, I used the word "chance".

and I didn't say podium I said split RB. I was talk about Quali...

Vandoorne did a 1:13.249 and Ricardo a 1:12.998. ALO has been a Min of .3 faster than Vandoorne. Monaco is a short track which makes the .3 harder to make up but V is a rookie at Monaco which is big.

I was not answering you, I was replying to whoever said Mclaren could've gotten a podium which is crazy especially with penalties and even if not. Yes Splitting the RB could maybe be possible although that lap of stiffer was probably on the limits.

Anyway clearly it seems they have problems harvesting and running compound mode, they are so much better in quali where they can just use the battery and the MGU-H harvest is negligible. That is especially noticeable in short tracks in which the battery charged + MGU-K region is enough to sustain the whole lap

[Vasconia]

Forget about Hungary. They loose 1-2sec on the main straight. This can be overcome in Q, but in the race they are a sitting duck.
Singapore may be a chance, but they will need again opponents crashing to score there. Also for Singapore you need some power on the chain.

The expected updates should reduce this gap so I still have some hopes to see a good performance in Hungary.

[godlameroso]

McLaren season starts in Silverstone.

[etusch]

McLaren season starts in Silverstone.

Will new PU ready for Silvestone?

[aran.vtec]

McLaren season starts in Silverstone.

Will new PU ready for Silvestone?

they said their goal was to get the new spec engine ready for Canada , has there been anything official to say its been delayed ? from honda or mclaren that is

[etusch]

No there is not. But Hasegawa said that he is not sure. I very like to see it in Canada or next race.

[godlameroso]

I don't see any update for Canada, if I were Honda I'd shoot for Baku, as any updates will incur a grid penalty, so given the very long straights there, it would make sense since they'll qualify well down anyway with their lack of power. Canada and Austria have long straights, but there are other aspects that I feel are more important for those tracks, which could allow McLaren to score some much needed points. The car is definitely Q3 worthy as is, the main issue is holding on during the race. Vandoorne's pace in Monaco wasn't as far off the leaders as Alonso's pace was last year, so the chassis is working better, at least in part to the more compact engine with better COG.

[etusch]

If I am not wrong Baku is the next race to Canada.

[BosF1]

If I am not wrong Baku is the next race to Canada.

You are not wrong

However, I feel that they should take their time. I personally do not see any point scoring races ahead of the summer break apart from the Hungaroring, but I think they can score points there with the current PU package as well. Canada, Baku, Austria and Silverstone are all very powerdependent circuits. If they rush the update now and somehow manage to produce a half baked update they are stuck with it for some races. And let's be honest, their recent history of PU updates have not always met expectations (at least for us outsiders). So it's better to just take the time they need and built a proper functioning upgrade for the second half of the season.

It's not only this season that depends on that update. If it doesn't bring them a significant step forward, I'm willing to bet Alonso won't sign a new contract. I think the team needs Alonso harder at this point than Alonso needs the team. So I'm willing to wait a bit more if that delivers the long awaited step ahead and I do believe we get to see a competitive PU and therefore competitive car this year, but not before Spa.

[basti313]

Forget about Hungary. They loose 1-2sec on the main straight. This can be overcome in Q, but in the race they are a sitting duck.
Singapore may be a chance, but they will need again opponents crashing to score there. Also for Singapore you need some power on the chain.

The expected updates should reduce this gap so I still have some hopes to see a good performance in Hungary.

McLaren is expecting updates that should reduce the gap for how many years now?

[godlameroso]

The updates have worked, what they introduced in Spain and Monaco have certainly made the car faster, the engine is slightly improved, but the chassis is much better than when the season started, they were 2.6 seconds off the pace in Australia, they were 1.7 seconds off the pace in Spain, they gained another .2 in Monaco. Frankly I don't think there will be a big update from the engine, I just don't see it, they'll just chip away a little at a time, I don't think we'll see a .4 second jump from the engine out of nowhere(although it would be incredibly satisfying if they did). 14 races left on the calendar 5 months left in the season, they just need to find .2 sec relative to their competition every month to be up there. A tenth from the engine and a tenth from the chassis should be enough, and that will put them in a good position for next year.

[proteus]

The updates have worked, what they introduced in Spain and Monaco have certainly made the car faster, the engine is slightly improved, but the chassis is much better than when the season started, they were 2.6 seconds off the pace in Australia, they were 1.7 seconds off the pace in Spain, they gained another .2 in Monaco. Frankly I don't think there will be a big update from the engine, I just don't see it, they'll just chip away a little at a time, I don't think we'll see a .4 second jump from the engine out of nowhere(although it would be incredibly satisfying if they did). 14 races left on the calendar 5 months left in the season, they just need to find .2 sec relative to their competition every month to be up there. A tenth from the engine and a tenth from the chassis should be enough, and that will put them in a good position for next year.

Right now in this moment i believe they are in no desperate need of chipping their quali speed (ofcourse it doesnt hurt at all if they do). Their main problem remains with sustaining the speed during the race. I saw a pattern now in few races in a row where it was clearly seen that at some point they were able to follow the car infront, than a period of lossing time happens where they fall back to 5 sec gap, or more and then gaining back practically catching the car infront again (before the pitting time), so there must be again alot of fuel saving involved and when they climb back to the green they push again catching the guy infront.

The second problem is overtaking the car infront. If they were able to do that last year, it looks like they lost it again this year, the new aero rules aparently are contributing to it.

And thirdly, they have to trim their pitstop times, they are losing vital seconds every race. Many times positions are lost due to the pitstop delay.