Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Scorpaguy]

I've said it before....pages ago...now I will say it again:

---It is time to remove the word "power" from the title of this thread---

[Squid]

PU is a goner according to Alonso.

[godlameroso]

I hope McLaren does ditch Honda, not for McLaren's sake, but because that engine will be competitive towards the end of the season, and Sauber will have a chance to be a good team again.

I don't have to hope, or think I'm dreaming when I state with 100% full confidence that engine will be competitive by Suzuka. I just know it, don't ask me how I know, you wouldn't believe me anyway, but I know.

As for the upgrade, not going to happen until Silverstone, realistically.

[gruntguru]

Can you elaborate why do you think that the temperature of the inlet air in compressor is with minuscule significance to the temperature of compression process itself?

The air going through the compressor is there only for a short time so very little time to have heat gain. And the temperature gain in the compressor is >>100°C from compression alone.

Yes - at least 160*C at 3.5 PR.

On the question of "how much heat?" The compressor is adding about 120 kW of heat to the air at 3.5 PR. That's 120 hair dryers all at once. Compare the amount of heat transferring along a short shaft and housing vs a long one (don't forget there is oil and water cooling of both as well) - it is miniscule.

[tom101]

Will they be able to get a reliable and powerful PU in 120 days?

[McHonda]

Will they be able to build a reliable and powerful PU in 120 days?

Depends what powerful constitutes.

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.
Can they match Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault reliability in 120 days?. No I don't think so but far from impossible, they did well in this department in the second half of last year for example.

I think they can bring a good enough upgrade to save the partnership but it will need to hit the ground running power wise. I think both McLaren and Alonso could put up with reliability concerns if the peak power and area under the curve improve dramatically.

[MrPotatoHead]

This time last season Alonso had 18 points and that was after missing 1 race.
I also believe the speed trap deficit for this year was twice that of last year.

Honda have gone backwards.

Well then. Not sure what to say about that other than its pretty sad.

[MrPotatoHead]

Will they be able to build a reliable and powerful PU in 120 days?

Depends what powerful constitutes.

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.
Can they match Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault reliability in 120 days?. No I don't think so but far from impossible, they did well in this department in the second half of last year for example.

I think they can bring a good enough upgrade to save the partnership but it will need to hit the ground running power wise. I think both McLaren and Alonso could put up with reliability concerns if the peak power and area under the curve improve dramatically.

Alonso's car has retired from every race because of reliability problems hasn't it?
I'm sure he would not be ok with more power and less reliability.

[godlameroso]

Stressing the power unit to the breaking point probably has it's own lessons.

[wuzak]

I don't have to hope, or think I'm dreaming when I state with 100% full confidence that engine will be competitive by Suzuka. I just know it, don't ask me how I know, you wouldn't believe me anyway, but I know.

Competitive with who or what?

You must the greatest optimist in the world!

Renault has consistently been behind both Mercedes and Ferrari, and Honda is nearly at the same power as Renault.

Alonso was 10km/h/6mph down on Danny Ric in the race. The cars he had higher top speeds than did not have the opportunity to use DRS.

Palmer was the fastest of the Renault powered cars at 334.2km/h/207.7mph. Hulkenberg not far behind at 332.2km/h/206.4mph.

It's not like you can say the Renault has an amazing chassis which helps it launch out of the hairpin.

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.

That's fantastic news. They will catch up, but only if the opposition stops where they are.

[wuzak]

Stressing the power unit to the breaking point probably has it's own lessons.

Good thing Baku is next then!

Only ~20s on full throttle down the straight there. Compared to ~15s in Canada.

[McHonda]

Will they be able to build a reliable and powerful PU in 120 days?

Depends what powerful constitutes.

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.
Can they match Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault reliability in 120 days?. No I don't think so but far from impossible, they did well in this department in the second half of last year for example.

I think they can bring a good enough upgrade to save the partnership but it will need to hit the ground running power wise. I think both McLaren and Alonso could put up with reliability concerns if the peak power and area under the curve improve dramatically.

Alonso's car has retired from every race because of reliability problems hasn't it?
I'm sure he would not be ok with more power and less reliability.

I think it would show progress though and at least give him some hope for next year if he stayed, which is what he's looking for. He's seen them get on top of reliability before but he's yet to see any power so I think a good boost in power could be viewed a bit more positively to him even if it wasn't as reliable as the others.

But obviously you'd prefer both for sure.

[ringo]

There is something fundamentally wrong with this honda engine. It's like clockwork when it comes to engine failures. I am begining to wonder if their engineers fully understand the fatigue that the engine goes through. An engine failure 2 laps before the end of the grandprix and it keeps happening over and over. This is frustrating.
Last year's engine wasn't this bad.
Honda is back to it's poor reliability of the Sato days. Sato used to grenade a Honda engine near the end of a grandprix very often. You could bet your house that Sato was going to blow an engine and create an oil shower.

[McHonda]

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.

That's fantastic news. They will catch up, but only if the opposition stops where they are.

You think I was celebrating or praising that or something?.

You fail to mention the obvious and you get sarky comments about "Yeah coz everyone else will stand still lolz", but you mention the obvious and you still get sarky comments sent your way.

Got to love the internet.

[wuzak]

Can they catch Mercedes/Ferrari power wise in 120 days?. No chance.
Can they catch Renault power wise in 120 days?. Yes I believe so if the upgrade works well and Renault don't bring their upgrade.

That's fantastic news. They will catch up, but only if the opposition stops where they are.

You think I was celebrating or praising that or something?.

You fail to mention the obvious and you get sarky comments about "Yeah coz everyone else will stand still lolz", but you mention the obvious and you still get sarky comments sent your way.

Got to love the internet.

I apologise if I offended you.

No, I don't think you were celebrating about Honda's progress.

I'd have to say that given Honda's "progress" this year that if they can match Renault's current power levels in 120 days it will be a minor miracle.