Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Sasha]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

[McHonda]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

'The fact that Renault has switched to BP/Castrol while RB is working with Mobil does not yet appear to be a problem for engine development. Marko says, however, "If there are problems with reliability, it could be a disadvanage". On the single-cylinder test bench no significant difference has been seen so far'
http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/1 ... steht.html

Maybe the difference became apparent when it was scaled up but I was just going by that article. Another one in the eye for single-cylinder testing in this formula maybe.

[ringo]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

What form does that performance take?
fuel has many aspects of performance, and it may not be horsepower.

[-wkst-]

20 hp difference...
for sure....

Maybe the guys here should ask themselves if it is so clever to trust a guy who makes such claims. [-o<

[Sasha]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

What form does that performance take?
fuel has many aspects of performance, and it may not be horsepower.

HP is stated for all you peeps because that is all the press understand and thinks you only understand.This engine formula isn't about HP.So HP is used as a performance guide between each PU but it isn't a correct guide for performance of each PU.

[bill shoe]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

What form does that performance take?
fuel has many aspects of performance, and it may not be horsepower.

For sure, it may have more energy density (more combustion energy per kg of fuel, so peak hp may not increase but average hp during race may be higher), it may have more mass density (so smaller tank to hold 100 kg). The fuel may come with $10 million in sponsorship which clearly leads to performance gains.

[godlameroso]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

What form does that performance take?
fuel has many aspects of performance, and it may not be horsepower.

HP is stated for all you peeps because that is all the press understand and thinks you only understand.This engine formula isn't about HP.So HP is used as a performance guide between each PU but it isn't a correct guide for performance of each PU.

HP over a range? Then would it make more sense to talk about broader torque curves, or longer full power deployment to the MGU-K?

[Dimi]

The fact in recent turbo engines is that the most important element, on which depends all the power and success of the engine, is the injection-combustion system. Also makes me impressed that in such a complicated system operating near physical limits, there are so many limitations of its construction and materials. It is like someone built a system first and then the regulations step on it

[godlameroso]

The restrictions are in theory to keep costs down, but in practice make catching up to the rule writers more difficult.

Imagine getting the right mix between extracting crank power, and turbine power will always be a compromise. There are so many factors to consider, if you make changes to the Homogeneous Indirect Charge Ignition System, maybe you also have to make changes to the valve lift and duration profile, and changes to the turbine blade geometry, and develop the fuel that lets you take advantage of all this. Then you also have to deal with new knowledge that may obsolete everything you're doing and forcing you to start over, or force you to modify the design, which delays it even more. Then there's compressor as well, a lot of scope for development there, the rules forbid variable turbines, but do not forbid variable vane compressors.

[wuzak]

The restrictions are in theory to keep costs down, but in practice make catching up to the rule writers more difficult.

You mean Gilles Simon and the FIA?

Or are you suggesting Mercedes wrote the rules? Because Ferrari and Renault were involved in the rules defining process, and Gilles Simon wrote the rules for the FIA.

[godlameroso]

Did he? That's very interesting. He joined PURE in 2011, and he was a consultant to Honda since 2013 until his recent departure, but I didn't know he was involved in the engine regulations. So that means that the current formula was drafted around 2009 when he was involved with the FIA?

[gruntguru]

From Renault(BP) and RB(MobilExxon). "MobilExxon fuel has a performance gain over BP"

Racer.com had a story about it today.

What form does that performance take?
fuel has many aspects of performance, and it may not be horsepower.

For sure, it may have more energy density (more combustion energy per kg of fuel, so peak hp may not increase but average hp during race may be higher)

Peak HP would also increase unless there was some other limiting factor.

[wuzak]

Did he? That's very interesting. He joined PURE in 2011, and he was a consultant to Honda since 2013 until his recent departure, but I didn't know he was involved in the engine regulations. So that means that the current formula was drafted around 2009 when he was involved with the FIA?

He left the FIA in mid 2011 to join PURE.

[MrPotatoHead]

From what i can tell Honda have a full AVL track simulation dyno system.
But it is a rigid test stand type system not a full chassis simulation.

If they are still having vibration issues the chances of finding the solution on the dyno without a full chassis simulation is pretty slim.
But it's important to remember that a 90 degree V6 with straight crank pins will always be an odd fire engine and will inherently be vibration prone.

Very wrong. They have the full chassis dynamoteter. In this 2015! Article you can see they even use it for super formula...

http://www.somersf1.co.uk/2015/09/mclar ... d.html?m=1

They have all sorts of dyno types and brands it seems..

This photo was years ago but they surely have upgraded since then.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AHntp4Y7Wrs/V ... ura_09.jpg

That picture does not show what you think it does.

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote=wuzak][quote=godlameroso]
The restrictions are in theory to keep costs down, but in practice make catching up to the rule writers more difficult[/quote]

You mean Gilles Simon and the FIA?
Or are you suggesting Mercedes wrote the rules? Because Ferrari and Renault were involved in the rules defining process, and Gilles Simon wrote the rules for the FIA.[/quote]


Mercedes and Renault each own a bit of the other's company
ie they are not two independent interests
and both are in some part owned by public money

Mercedes could have in effect 'sold Renault the dummy' (or vice-versa of course)
anyway there was not 3 independent engine producer interests

someone had this engine under their bench, and the rules were written around it