2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

I edited my post and it didn't make it forward.

ZakB is right, if ALO carries more speed out of turn 1(lets say 5km), hits the apex better and is on the accelerator sooner(lets say 1 sec). It leaves the PU in Van's car 5KM more to make up and 1 less second to do it in. Not to mention that they're probably not going fast enough out of the 1st corner to go full throttle for another couple of seconds (so has more power but can't use it for that time). The speed trap is about 600 - 700 meters from the corner, whole straight is 750M, nowhere near the 2-3KM straights of Baku.

if you look at the top speeds in each sector http://www.fia.com/file/59512/download?token=tyZDB7Az

You'll see that Van is 2 KM faster on average in every sector.

So you're right you can't change the data. You can look at other data though.

What are you basing Alonso carrying more speed out of corners on?

If 2 cars travel from point A to point D where point B is a right hand turn and point C is a Speed trap(let says Car A and Car V). Car A has less power than car V(aka car V accelerates quicker), but car A gets to point D faster and has a higher speed at point C. The logical assumption is car A didn't slow down as much at point B and or started accelerating sooner away from point B. The acceleration is a static for both cars(all be it different). The variables are the speed in the corner (point B), when the cars got on the accelerator out of point B and how quickly they got on full throttle (presuming both cars are running the same down-force then they both need to achieve the same certain speed to able to use full throttle).

The more speed you can keep in the corner the more downforce you keep, the more usable acceleration you have coming out of the corner and the quicker you get to full throttle. If you can't get to full throttle doesn't matter how much power you have, you can't use it.

Maintaining speed in a corner is the same big trade off as taking rear wing off the car. You gain top speed but you lose acceleration off of a HIGH NUMBER of corners and the amount of speed you can carry in the corners.

[etusch]

What are you basing Alonso carrying more speed out of corners on?

I hope you asked this question to emphasize something we already know.

[mclaren111]

I'd say that too if I had a faster PU and was still almost 2 10th down on the other driver. On top of that if Alo had another run he would have been another 2 10ths faster.

Van should shut his trap and drive cause in my opinion the PU is better than his driving!

Vandoorne was also not very good in his first year of GP2 if I remember correctly.

Then he dominated in his second year. Let's hope this works the same next year.

[McL-H]

I edited my post and it didn't make it forward.

ZakB is right, if ALO carries more speed out of turn 1(lets say 5km), hits the apex better and is on the accelerator sooner(lets say 1 sec). It leaves the PU in Van's car 5KM more to make up and 1 less second to do it in. Not to mention that they're probably not going fast enough out of the 1st corner to go full throttle for another couple of seconds (so has more power but can't use it for that time). The speed trap is about 600 - 700 meters from the corner, whole straight is 750M, nowhere near the 2-3KM straights of Baku.

if you look at the top speeds in each sector http://www.fia.com/file/59512/download?token=tyZDB7Az

You'll see that Van is 2 KM faster on average in every sector.

So you're right you can't change the data. You can look at other data though.

What are you basing Alonso carrying more speed out of corners on?

If 2 cars travel from point A to point D where point B is a right hand turn and point C is a Speed trap(let says Car A and Car V). Car A has less power than car V(aka car V accelerates quicker), but car A gets to point D faster and has a higher speed at point C. The logical assumption is car A didn't slow down as much at point B and or started accelerating sooner away from point B. The acceleration is a static for both cars(all be it different). The variables are the speed in the corner (point B), when the cars got on the accelerator out of point B and how quickly they got on full throttle (presuming both cars are running the same down-force then they both need to achieve the same certain speed to able to use full throttle).

The more speed you can keep in the corner the more downforce you keep, the more usable acceleration you have coming out of the corner and the quicker you get to full throttle. If you can't get to full throttle doesn't matter how much power you have, you can't use it.

Maintaining speed in a corner is the same big trade off as taking rear wing off the car. You gain top speed but you lose acceleration off of a HIGH NUMBER of corners and the amount of speed you can carry in the corners.

For some reason "I am not yet allowed to recommend posts". So there you go: +1. Finally a post on this page in the topic that is contributing to the conversation, and it gets downvoted.

Can a mod please clean up this topic? I am more of a reader on this forum than a contributor, but reading comments in this topic becomes quite useless at this level of conversation..

[JuanjoTS]

It looks like this GP will be a lot of fun, many cars have similar race beats, MER and FERR are ahead, REDBULL behind, near a pack of 8 or 10 cars with similar beats.

[Phil]

Interesting article on AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04428.html

Fakt ist: McLaren kann sich von Honda nur trennen, wenn die Japaner dem zustimmen. Es mag im ursprünglichen Vertrag Leistungsklauseln gegeben haben, doch dieses ursprüngliche Abkommen soll in dem Augenblick seine Gültigkeit verloren haben, in dem Honda mit seinem Beitrag immer größere Löcher im Etat stopfen musste, weil McLaren Sponsoren verloren hatte. Die anderen Motorenhersteller können McLaren nur helfen, wenn der Vertrag mit Honda rechtskräftig gekündigt ist. „Würden wir in einen bestehenden Vertrag eingreifen, indem wir einen Motor anbieten, könnte uns Honda verklagen“, erklärt Niki Lauda die Position von Mercedes.

Roughly translated, Honda has McLaren by the balls. If Honda doesn't allow McLaren out of the contract, McLaren can't use a different engine. Apparently, there were some performance clauses in the contract that binds the partnership, but since Honda is paying more to nullify the loss of sponsors of McLaren, that has gone out the window. The other engine manufacturers can only step in if the contract that binds McLaren and Honda is terminated. If they'd do so and interfere before, Honda could sue them, says Niki Lauda.

Mercedes apparently would only step in if McLaren were to suddenly stand there without an engine. They are less keen though, as they already have a tough fight on their hands with RedBull gaining performance and Ferrari being as competitive as they are.


Another interesting aspect in the above article is that Alonso seems to be quite "friendly" towards Honda. There is speculation that perhaps something changed within the last 2 weeks in the relationship between the two.

[Alonso Fan]

Such a shame

[GoranF1]

There goes 15€ into the wind.

[Sayeman]

Whole race behind Palmer without a single move, expected a bit more from Vandoorne.

Meanwhile Lauda says they won't consider Fernando as long as Lewis has a contract. Something about "Team Harmony"

[Soichiro]

Another interesting aspect in the above article is that Alonso seems to be quite "friendly" towards Honda. There is speculation that perhaps something changed within the last 2 weeks in the relationship between the two.

The "winning team" could be one of Honda powered Indy cars... seems plausible.

[Redragon]

Whole race behind Palmer without a single move, expected a bit more from Vandoorne.

Meanwhile Lauda says they won't consider Fernando as long as Lewis has a contract. Something about "Team Harmony"

So why it was ok last christmas to sign Alo and not for next year? and why they haven't signed Bottas yet for next year? Is a bit strange?

[etusch]

Interesting article on AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04428.html

Another interesting aspect in the above article is that Alonso seems to be quite "friendly" towards Honda. There is speculation that perhaps something changed within the last 2 weeks in the relationship between the two.

Not just Alo but Bullier too has different attitude. I don't know what happened. For me, if you want to change PU supplier, it is okey. But insulting some is not acceptable. They has better knowledge than us that it is not an easy job.
About race, it was bad for Alonso. But worse for Van Doorne. He, using u.s. tyres, couldn't overtake palmer which was using soft tyres.

[Soichiro]

Interesting article on AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04428.html

Another interesting aspect in the above article is that Alonso seems to be quite "friendly" towards Honda. There is speculation that perhaps something changed within the last 2 weeks in the relationship between the two.

Not just Alo but Bullier too has different attitude. I don't know what happened. For me, if you want to change PU supplier, it is okey. But insulting some is not acceptable. They has better knowledge than us that it is not an easy job.
About race, it was bad for Alonso. But worse for Van Doorne. He, using u.s. tyres, couldn't overtake palmer which was using soft tyres.

When you have inferior/equal power you need to be very good in positioning the car and planning the opponents moves in advance, something that VAN does not seem to be good at (at least for now) - ALO would have got past for sure. You can also see who is good at that by observing who gains the most places race starts - first two/three corners, especially combinations of corners in a crowded situation - you need to be positioned for the gap and anticipate where the gap would open if the current one closes.

[j.yank]

Interesting article on AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04428.html

Another interesting aspect in the above article is that Alonso seems to be quite "friendly" towards Honda. There is speculation that perhaps something changed within the last 2 weeks in the relationship between the two.

Not just Alo but Bullier too has different attitude. I don't know what happened. For me, if you want to change PU supplier, it is okey. But insulting some is not acceptable. They has better knowledge than us that it is not an easy job.
About race, it was bad for Alonso. But worse for Van Doorne. He, using u.s. tyres, couldn't overtake palmer which was using soft tyres.

This was very difficult to overtake on this track. Even Hamilton struggled to pass Riciardo despite that he closed 5 sec gap. Similar situations we had with other drivers. Don't blame Vandoorne for this.

[max_speed]

i just feel sorry for McLaren. they are in hard place. one side is Honda , no power , incompetent and supported by bunch of ardent supporters.every year talking about new design and formula to beat mercedes and still behind renault other side is Vandoorne gets spec3 unit, still below par performance, ignores blue flag and gets penalty. Today mclaren should have secured points. they were there for taking. Mclaren's only "shining light" is Alonso. make him disappear and you will so no difference between sauber and mclaren. if he retires from racing , i hope he does , mclaren will be reduced to an embarrassment. i feel sorry for McLaren. button should have been here in place of vandoorne.