So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
HKS
0
Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 06:37

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

I would love to see Vettel and Rosberg in a stronger team.
I'm sure Nico in a Mclaren would easily beat a Hamilton.

I'm just waiting for Nico to shift to a stronger team. [-o< [-o<
Racing cars are neither beautiful nor ugly, they are beautiful only when you win races.

User avatar
ketanpaul
0
Joined: 08 Mar 2005, 18:50
Location: New Delhi, India

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

Firstly, this is my first post in an extremely long time, I think I stopped posting after MC left.....neways, have been very busy with college and all, so a big Hi to those who remember me, and a big WELCOME to the so many newcomers i have seen joining recently.

Now, as this concerned Ferrari I simply had to have an opinion :wink: :wink:

Vettel is no doubt, a very good driver and one of the most promising rookies I have ever seen. I simply loved his drive in Hungary last year, although he spun a couple of times, he was clearly very good for a first timer on a wet track.

However, the question is whether he is Ferrari material or not. Ferrari have always preferred a clear difference between the two drivers, and eventhough the Massa/Kimi pairing isnt clearly 1-2, I would say that Ferrari has played smart and has selected two drivers who both have the potential of winning the Championship, but at the same time will remain in peace with each other. Kimi would never bother to even think about all the bullshit about preferential treatment and all as long as he has a winning car and Massa is simply to focussed on getting the car through the weekend without any problems to think about the same. Both feel secure within the walls of Ferrari.

Now lets imagine Vettel replacing. Hes German, would probably be the new "Schumi's kid" and will have one of the purest racers in F1 as his teammate. Now, I dont imagine Vettel would take time to get to grips with the cars and will probably start with quick times straight-away. He will be exceptional in quali and will suddenly start breathing down Kimi's neck. Now that Kimi has already won a Championship, and is mostly a closed book, I see no reason why the team will not start instantly loving the new kid on the block.

The difference between Massa and Vettel is simply that I believe, quick laps come naturally to Vettel whereas Massa really has to dissect each of Kimi's laps to understand where he is slow. Although he gets to almost the same level, I think a natural quickness is needed when you are competing against someone like Kimi. From what I have seen of Vettel, I think he has it, but it still needs a little garnish.

So, according to me the best thing would be to get Vettel AFTER Kimi has retired which cannot be more than 2-3 years. Because, I just get the feel that the environment in Ferrari with Kimi will change with Vettel around because of his natural speed and the fact that he is very lovable, caring and moreover, still a kid. Suddenly, Kimi will not remain the golden boy of Ferrari.

So the best thing to do is get Vettel testing with Ferrari ASAP and groom him to the Ferrari way of things, so that when Kimi goes, hes the one with the breath of fresh air. And Massa, well I think he will continue at Ferrari for the simple reason that hes fast and totally benign. However, a Championship win could change all that......... :lol: :lol:

rikhav
rikhav
0
Joined: 15 May 2007, 15:35

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

Hi ketan
nice to see someone else too from india :)

What i feel is Vettel won't wait to become a driver at Ferrari becuase probably he would be getting offers by other big teams to be their race driver which would be hard for him not to consider.
Plus if i am not wrong he is still BMW property. But for sure it would be really exciting to see him racing a Ferrari. I just hope he comes in Ferrari when the team is still in form, so he has one of the best cars in F1. Every team has ups and down

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

I guess a lot of people are forgetting that Felipe Massa has a contract to be a race driver for Ferrari up to and including the 2010 Formula One season. And that Nicholas Todt wouldn't approve of any other scenario up until then.

Ferrari have a history of employing experienced race drivers, instead of up and young up and coming ones. So the chances of Sebastien Vettel becoming a Ferrari race driver are slim to none, at least from now to the 2010 season, since Kimi Raikkonens race contract expires in December of 2009 and we have yet to find out if he and Ferrari will extend it or not.

HKS, wouldn't it be better for all if Williams improved and became a top contender instead of Nico Rosberg having to switch to another team that is currently higher in the ranks? Nico Roberg could possibly do a similar job within Williams as Michael Schumacher did within Ferrari starting in 1996. N.Rosberg seems to be a very well driven and responsible young man, so I personally don't see a need for him to switch teams as long as he and Williams continue to improve on a consistent basis. And for Williams to improve their constructors championship they also need a strong driver pairing, since having a single strong driver will not aid in total points earing throughout the season. Hopefully Nico Rosberk and Kazuki Nakajima will provide just that.
Forum guide: read before posting

"You do it, then it's done." - Kimi Räikkönen

Por las buenas soy amigo, por las malas soy campeón.

User avatar
megz
1
Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 09:57
Location: New Zealand

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

What I can't understand is why we have drivers the likes of Nakajima, Massa and Glock in top teams. Why aren't great rookies like Vettel (admitedly he IS stuck to BMW like --- to a rug) employed in higher ranked teams? Stupid Toyota twisting Williams' arm to have a japanesse driver its not cool.

hatchet man
hatchet man
0
Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 05:40
Location: Waterloo, Ontario

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

I'm all for the swap Massa/Vettel. I have never been a fan of Massa's even though he has had some decent races. I see Vettel becoming a much more successful racer. As for Massa's contract, If I remember correctly, the rumour was that his contract did not specifically state that he would be racing (i.e. could be demoted to test driver).

donskar
donskar
2
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

I guess I'm totally out of the F1 mainstream here in Houston, TX, USA (This here is NASCAR country, y'all), so I may be missing something.

Why this tidal wave of criticism of Massa? He has won races and poles in his relatively short career and has shown significant development and increased maturity since his early days. He was unimpressive in Australia. But he is certainly young enough and intelligent enough to improve.

I know he is managed by Todt's son, but his record would earn him a spot on most F1 teams, regardless of connections.

Or am I missing something?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

RH1300S
RH1300S
1
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

donskar wrote:I guess I'm totally out of the F1 mainstream here in Houston, TX, USA (This here is NASCAR country, y'all), so I may be missing something.

Why this tidal wave of criticism of Massa? He has won races and poles in his relatively short career and has shown significant development and increased maturity since his early days. He was unimpressive in Australia. But he is certainly young enough and intelligent enough to improve.

I know he is managed by Todt's son, but his record would earn him a spot on most F1 teams, regardless of connections.

Or am I missing something?
An accurate summary - I think what you may be missing is the simpleton logic we are all applying - Ferrari are the top team (or equal top) right now; so expectations for the driver are higher. Quite simply, Vettel fans feel he could do a better job than Massa in that particular seat.

No doubt Massa has had some very good drives - let's see how this season pans out and re-visit this thread ;)

User avatar
Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

RH1300S wrote:Quite simply, Vettel fans feel he could do a better job than Massa in that particular seat.
In Massa defense, he hasn't run into anybody and ruined there race under the safety car. I think it's a little early for Vettel to make the swap. Let him fight it out in the midfield for a bit, then promote him.
donskar wrote:(This here is NASCAR country, y'all)
Finally! Someone who knows the correct spelling of y'all! :D

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

I would just like to see Vettel test a day with the OTHER Scuderia, and compare quali simulations against Kimi.

Kimi will more than likely beat him due simply to familliarity of teh car/team, but of all of the drivers that I have seen since 2003, Vettel has the most natural talent of them all.

What it comes down to is whomever picks him up from STR could be looking at 10 years with a driver that has no end to his casual competence.

If I were to buy a F1 team, Vettel would be my top pick of the field paired up with someone like Trulli or Webber just for the experience that Vettel could absorb from them.

But I dont have $1Billion to invest in a STR purchase, so what do I know?

Chris

User avatar
NickT
2
Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

Hmmm.... This is interesting, adds a little more smoke to the fire :wink:
NickT

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

From Thursday's press conference:

Q: (Paolo Ianieri - La Gazzetta dello Sport) Felipe, this is just the second race of the season but already there are rumours about next year and one of them was about Sebastian (Vettel) replacing you in Ferrari from 2009.
FM: I have a three-year contract, so I am very comfortable in the team. Everybody is happy with the team itself, everybody, but for sure the last race was not a very fantastic weekend for everybody in the team. For the drivers, but also for the team and the reliability and you know it is not because of one result that it is going to change everything in the team. So everybody is happy with the drivers, everybody is happy with the team itself and I have a three-year contract if you don’t remember.

Q: (Paolo Ianieri - La Gazzetta dello Sport) Sebastian, what about the rumours of you going to Ferrari? Even if it is true or not, is it something that makes you happy that you are already considered as a promise for a good team even though you have had such a few races?
SV: We have a Ferrari engine in the back now, but the rest you can ask Felipe. I think he was quite clear on what he said.

Neither one tipping their hand at all, so how did the rumors come about? Was the article that said that Ferrari had secured Vettel as reserve driver for THIS year just fluff?

I dont know, but damn it, I would LOVE to see young Vettel see what he can do in the F2008!

Chris

User avatar
f1italia
0
Joined: 29 Jun 2007, 03:13

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

Let Vettel pay his dues first before we start talking about Ferrari. Those were just rumors as usual in F1. They did this when Kimi came on the scene and he paid his dues.

The season has just started people lets not rush it.

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

f1italia wrote:Let Vettel pay his dues first before we start talking about Ferrari. Those were just rumors as usual in F1. They did this when Kimi came on the scene and he paid his dues.

The season has just started people lets not rush it.
So Heikki paid his dues in one season? Hamilton paid his on his way in?

Massa is no match for pure skill compared to Vettel IMHO, so the trade up would be good for him.

Chris

User avatar
f1italia
0
Joined: 29 Jun 2007, 03:13

Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

Post

Conceptual wrote:
f1italia wrote:Let Vettel pay his dues first before we start talking about Ferrari. Those were just rumors as usual in F1. They did this when Kimi came on the scene and he paid his dues.

The season has just started people lets not rush it.
So Heikki paid his dues in one season? Hamilton paid his on his way in?

Massa is no match for pure skill compared to Vettel IMHO, so the trade up would be good for him.

Chris
I was not talking about Heikki or Hamilton. I know they didn't pay there dues.
Though Hamilton is a gifted driver.