So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Conceptual
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So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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You know it's coming, but when?

Massa sent to STR for "engine support" reasons, but everyone knows its because he can't drive without TC.

Vettel surprised last year, and looked VERY good in Oz.

Any thoughts?

Chris

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GTO
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Yes, Vettel looks fast & promising for the future, but am not ready to believe him "Ferrari" bound yet. Nor am I ready (yet) to believe Massa will be shipped out either. I'll wait 'til the end of Sept. to give him the thumbs up or down. I will expect BMW to take him back if any of their current drivers (barring reliability issues) are not consistently in the top 4 or 5.

At Ferrari, I would be more interested in seeing KR & FA super duel in 09 a la Prost/Senna duel at McLaren. One, I don't think Ferrari could affort both of them though (close to $100 M together which would be close to Super Aguri's team budget). Two, FA would want No.1 status again & not go Ferrari if KR is there.

Conceptual
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Didn't I read somewhere that Ferrari have picked up Vettel as a stand-in driver for THIS year? Or was that article just a joke?

I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember thinking "Poor Massa's gonna get kneecapped..."

Does anyone have a link to that article or at least read it?

Chris

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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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I remember an article in which Schumacher rated Vettel quite hightly to contend for championship. I think he said the same about KR when he was at Sauber. So... maybe that could be a tip.

donskar
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Didn't I read somewhere that Ferrari have picked up Vettel as a stand-in driver for THIS year? Or was that article just a joke?

I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember thinking "Poor Massa's gonna get kneecapped..."

Does anyone have a link to that article or at least read it?
I noted elsewhere that SPEED TV mentioned before the start of the race that Ferrari was considering Vettel as a reserve driver. I think they'll give him at least a few races before making a move. They will want to minimize turmoil.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

rikhav
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Definately Massa has some weak points in his driving and for sure Ferrari bosses are keeping a close look on his driving. He did not do bad in 2007 but now life without TC, lets see if he adjusts his driving accordingly. If he gives regular podium finishes along with kimi i dont see him going from ferrari. But if he does bad in comparision to Kimi, ferrari for sure will think about snapping Vettel before some other team or BMW would do all to get him

manchild
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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I think that it is a great shame that Vettel, Glock and Bourdais aren't in top teams as we speak. In fact, F1 lacks top teams. We have obviously more super talented drivers than top teams. F1 needs at least 14 to 16 teams in order to absorb all the newcomers who deserve seats in top cars. What will happen next year if Bruno Senna comes to F1? F1 also needs more manufacturers to join up - Porsche, Ford, Peugeot...

axle
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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I'd like to see more cars and more drivers on track at one time. 3 car teams :)

Or more teams...but I don't want customer cars...as such - I think they should be able to buy any 1 year old car and it's blue prints for their first year. Then develop from there.

Back on track, I think Vettel needs at least a full year under his belt before he replaces Massa, but I do see him as a good choice to replace him. I can't see why Massa is liked by Ferrari, other than he tends to not make a fuss and disturb Kimi.
- Axle

manchild
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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axle wrote:Back on track, I think Vettel needs at least a full year under his belt before he replaces Massa
Why, Villeneuve, Hamilton both fought for the WDC in their maiden season. To adequately replace Massa, Vettel would need cramps in his right leg. :lol:

RH1300S
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Interesting - I hadn't joined those dots up.............

No doubt in my mind, having watched him....Vettel is the real deal; he'd go very well in the Ferrari - may even trouble Kimi on outright pace.

Massa is Ok; but that's about it.

Conceptual
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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And you KNOW who Ferrari would bring in to mentor young Vettel, and it would go smoothly since they both speak german as their native tongue.

I dunno though, Michael is a VERY big supporter of Massa, but in the end, business is business, and Michael knows the Scuderia better than any.

I, for one, would absolutely LOVE to just see Vettel test in the Ferrari. Maybe do a quali simulation next to Kimi and see where he stacks up.

Who knows, maybe the IceMan might get a bit of motivation out of it, since it is obvious that Massa isnt very close to him in terms of pace.

Chris

donskar
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Manchild, I could not agree more:
In fact, F1 lacks top teams. We have obviously more super talented drivers than top teams. F1 needs at least 14 to 16 teams in order to absorb all the newcomers who deserve seats in top cars. What will happen next year if Bruno Senna comes to F1? F1 also needs more manufacturers to join up - Porsche, Ford, Peugeot...
Unfortunately, it seems ONLY major multinational manufacturers have a hope of funding more teams. Wasn't so long ago that $25-50 million USD would finance a decent F1 team. Now it looks like it takes 4-5 times that much.

Are 3-car teams the way? Fiat is recovering. Do they have the resources to finance another Ferrai team under the Alfa or Maserati marque?

OK, ridiculous, but much more fun that stepneygate, white mystery powder and ECUs.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

Conceptual
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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donskar wrote:Manchild, I could not agree more:
In fact, F1 lacks top teams. We have obviously more super talented drivers than top teams. F1 needs at least 14 to 16 teams in order to absorb all the newcomers who deserve seats in top cars. What will happen next year if Bruno Senna comes to F1? F1 also needs more manufacturers to join up - Porsche, Ford, Peugeot...
Unfortunately, it seems ONLY major multinational manufacturers have a hope of funding more teams. Wasn't so long ago that $25-50 million USD would finance a decent F1 team. Now it looks like it takes 4-5 times that much.

Are 3-car teams the way? Fiat is recovering. Do they have the resources to finance another Ferrai team under the Alfa or Maserati marque?




OK, ridiculous, but much more fun that stepneygate, white mystery powder and ECUs.
I think they would do MUCH better picking up someone like Coca-Cola or Ebay if they have a B team.

Chris

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Ray
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Conceptual wrote: I think they would do MUCH better picking up someone like Coca-Cola or Ebay if they have a B team.

Chris
For the life of me I don't know why Coke isn't a huge sponsor in F1. It's the globes most oft seen brand. :?

I like Massa, and I like Vettel. But as long as MS is around, Massa ain't going anywhere.

donskar
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Re: So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

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Ray wrote: For the life of me I don't know why Coke isn't a huge sponsor in F1. It's the globes most oft seen brand.
I spent 20 years in high tech marketing, much of it in branding-related activities, including (peripherally) Compaq's abortive engagement with F1. You can be sure Coke, eBay, Microsoft, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc have received and studied MANY proposals. It's a complicated question involving how many UNIQUE eyeballs per dollar, WHICH eyeballs, WHEN, etc. There are also questions about potential bad publicity from racing related deaths, the character of the players in F1, and exclusivity (Compaq hoped for an agreement making them the only PC manufacturer who could sponsor a team). The multitude of sponsors per team is also an issue. What if . . . one teams attempts to sign McDonald and Pepsi Cola (Frito-Lay) as co-sponsors. No Good: McDonalds sells Coca Cola products exclusively. Similarly Wal-Mart (family oriented) would not want "their" team to accept sponsorship from Viagra/sexually oriented products.

MORE important is the demographics of the audience. One example: several US magazines have folded in the last several years WHILE THEIR READERSHIP WAS AT ALL TIME HIGHS. Why? Advertisers were not interested in the demographic who read those particular magazines. Potential F1 sponsors would examine F1's audience very carefully. There has been a lot of talk about Bernie's audience figures being very inflated.

Possibly most important - I've already outlined above one thing that has limited mega-corp involvement: "Coke, eBay, Microsoft, McDonalds, Wal-Mart." They and many other companies with the resources to back F1 (Budweiser, Ford, GM, GE, Westinghouse, Boeing, etc) are USA-based. And F1 is a VERY small fish in the USA ocean. We need to look at non-US based multinationals for our best hope: Shell, Phillips, Nokia, etc, etc.

I'm several light years from being an expert on this point, but I hope the above helps a little.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill