So, when do we see the Massa/Vettel swap?

[Conceptual]

Let Vettel pay his dues first before we start talking about Ferrari. Those were just rumors as usual in F1. They did this when Kimi came on the scene and he paid his dues.

The season has just started people lets not rush it.

So Heikki paid his dues in one season? Hamilton paid his on his way in?

Massa is no match for pure skill compared to Vettel IMHO, so the trade up would be good for him.

Chris

I was not talking about Heikki or Hamilton. I know they didn't pay there dues.
Though Hamilton is a gifted driver.

They are ALL here because they are gifted. Paying dues is a matter of perspective. I am more for promoting raw talent immediately instead of wasting their potential in a lowly team just because someone feels as if they are required to do so.

Chris

[f1italia]

Like you said they are all gifted and have lots of talent but you need to start somewhere.I don't think he is mature enough to handle the pressure that Ferrari will put on him.

Like I said before, the season just started and the first race was exciting. We finally saw other teams do well instead of just having Ferrari and Mclaren on the Podium. I think it will be an exciting year and without traction control we will see who has the talent. I thought Bourdais did a great job in his F1 debut.

[donskar]

Hmmmm . . . Massa on pole. Four-tenths faster than Kimi. Nearly a SECOND faster than the Great Lewis Hamilton. How could that be? Some guy names Vettel in 15th?

Now come race day, there's no telling whether Massa will be able to handle the pressure of Kimi in his mirrors (though he has done it before). And being able to keep it on track for a few qualifying laps is not the same as going a race distance without going all agricultural. But guys, do you think we can cut him some slack for at least a race or two?

Not a Massa fan, just a fan of logic.

[Conceptual]

Hmmmm . . . Massa on pole. Four-tenths faster than Kimi. Nearly a SECOND faster than the Great Lewis Hamilton. How could that be? Some guy names Vettel in 15th?

Now come race day, there's no telling whether Massa will be able to handle the pressure of Kimi in his mirrors (though he has done it before). And being able to keep it on track for a few qualifying laps is not the same as going a race distance without going all agricultural. But guys, do you think we can cut him some slack for at least a race or two?

Not a Massa fan, just a fan of logic.

With that gap, I have to say that either Massa is light on fuel, or Kimi is that heavy. 4 tenths between identical cars is tough to explain in any other way.

And comparing Vettel's position against Massa's is kinda rediculous as well. I guess you could believe that the 2007 Torro Rosso is just as good as the 2008 Ferrari, but then I'd have to warn you to beware of Werewolves and Vampires in your closet. Kids daydreams dont even get that rediculous, so please dont compare apples to oranges.

We would ONLY know if Vettel did a test day with Ferrari, and SV and FM did a simultaneous quali simulation. THEN we would know who has real talent, and who was taught to push buttons.

Chris

[rjsa]

Hmmmm . . . Massa on pole. Four-tenths faster than Kimi. Nearly a SECOND faster than the Great Lewis Hamilton. How could that be? Some guy names Vettel in 15th?

Now come race day, there's no telling whether Massa will be able to handle the pressure of Kimi in his mirrors (though he has done it before). And being able to keep it on track for a few qualifying laps is not the same as going a race distance without going all agricultural. But guys, do you think we can cut him some slack for at least a race or two?

Not a Massa fan, just a fan of logic.

With that gap, I have to say that either Massa is light on fuel, or Kimi is that heavy. 4 tenths between identical cars is tough to explain in any other way.

And comparing Vettel's position against Massa's is kinda rediculous as well. I guess you could believe that the 2007 Torro Rosso is just as good as the 2008 Ferrari, but then I'd have to warn you to beware of Werewolves and Vampires in your closet. Kids daydreams dont even get that rediculous, so please dont compare apples to oranges.

We would ONLY know if Vettel did a test day with Ferrari, and SV and FM did a simultaneous quali simulation. THEN we would know who has real talent, and who was taught to push buttons.

Chris

KR said the last set of tyres didn't work right, never got to grip. They most probably have a 2 lap window between and I wouldn't put my money on either of them being the lighter one. KR had the strategy choice from Q2.

[f1italia]

Ferrari doesn't need Vettel. They have a great team already. Massa is doing a great job.

[Project Four]

Massa is looking good so far at Malaysia, but he does go well at this track, he was on pole last year remember. But at Melbourne he was very poor, especially loosing it at the first corner, when he was not protected by TC. And, at Melbourne Vettel looked good, but difficult to compare here at Malaysia as Vettel is struggling with his car, which is also not a front running car.

It will be interesting tomorrow if it rains to see how Massa copes on a slippery track without driver aids. Long term I believe that Vettel would be the better bet for a front running DWC contender. Just my opinion, may be proved wrong tomorrow.

[Jersey Tom]

Ohh how people swing their opinions based on one-off races...

[Conceptual]

Ohh how people swing their opinions based on one-off races...

Are you insinuating that my opinion is based sole from Australia? I was a HUGE fan of him as soon as he started testing for BMW. Anyone that is 19 years old, and has the confidence of a mega-million dollar team to pilot their 4.5 million dollar machine in anger DEFFINATELY has my respect. And his arrogance is nil.

Vettel at Ferrari mentored by Michael and competing against Kimi would be the type of situation that would build the next evolution of race driver. He could surpass Michael in 10 years time realistically if he isnt wasted in a mid-field team for the next 6 years.

I know that I may offend some of the people that love Senna/Prost/Schumacher and the rest, but if Ferrari plan on contending against Mclaren/Hamilton for the next 10 years, they need a test tube driver of their own, and from what I have seen on the grid, there would be no better pick.

Was it just a rumor that Vettel was signed to be the reserve driver for Ferrari in 2008? I read it from somewhere respectable, but I think it was a Build quote, and you all know how THAT goes...

Does anyone have more info?

Chris

[Jersey Tom]

Ohh how people swing their opinions based on one-off races...

Are you insinuating that my opinion is based sole from Australia? I was a HUGE fan of him as soon as he started testing for BMW. Anyone that is 19 years old, and has the confidence of a mega-million dollar team to pilot their 4.5 million dollar machine in anger DEFFINATELY has my respect. And his arrogance is nil.

Vettel at Ferrari mentored by Michael and competing against Kimi would be the type of situation that would build the next evolution of race driver. He could surpass Michael in 10 years time realistically if he isnt wasted in a mid-field team for the next 6 years.

Eh. Basically what I'm insinuating. Not just you though. It isnt so much that Vettel is good as it appears you're saying Massa is crap. For example..

Massa sent to STR for "engine support" reasons, but everyone knows its because he can't drive without TC.

That is where you lost me. Driving an F1 car without TC is certainly a challenge. But from previous races in other seasons, and now from Malaysia.. it would appear Felipe is quite capable of driving.

Saying Vettel could surpass Michael in 10 years time is quite the bold statement. Vettel is talented without a doubt, but I don't see how you can jump to say he is THAT good. I would be curious to see how he can do in another car. I'll be particularly interested to see how he and Bourdais do in terms of consistency over this season. After that, one could postulate his moves.

Ferrari has a World Champion in Kimi. They have a pretty good driver in Felipe Massa. He hasn't had the opportunity to fully illustrate his capabilities or shortcomings much since Michael's departure.. but he is known to score points. Its a big risk for Ferrari to dump him to pick up Vettel. See how the season pans out. Again, consistency will be key, and ability to pilot the car successfully in a variety of conditions, particularly the rain.

[Conceptual]

I agree, but you are missing the Michael mentoring him, and then putting up with Kimi, the 800lb gorilla-ninja that he is on the track. Fate alone brings such powerful synergies together at one point, IE: Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Byrne, and to have the ability to take another shot at a home run and not would almost be stupid. The potential of Vettel is very untapped. Imagine him learning from the "best there ever was", and test him against the "best there is now". I think if Vettel goes to Ferrari in 2009, he will be in contention to the end. And I think Kimi has the perfect personality to handle that kind of interteam competition. He had some very good quotes about his time with JPM, and I don't think that has changed.

I am telling you, at the next STR/Ferrari test session in Italy, they should let him take a few laps in the f2008. Maybe Ferrari would even just offer more "support" for their engine, like a bulletproof gearbox with the quick shift, not to mention the mounting points for the rear suspension parts... Hey, they did it for Sauber!

Who knows, but Vettel has more potential of any on track that I see. Hamilton is burning very bright because of his equipment, I think Vettel would burn brighter with what I have seen him do in VERY sub-Q3 equipment.

Anyways, I would love to see it!

Chris

[f1italia]

I agree, but you are missing the Michael mentoring him, and then putting up with Kimi, the 800lb gorilla-ninja that he is on the track. Fate alone brings such powerful synergies together at one point, IE: Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Byrne, and to have the ability to take another shot at a home run and not would almost be stupid. The potential of Vettel is very untapped. Imagine him learning from the "best there ever was", and test him against the "best there is now". I think if Vettel goes to Ferrari in 2009, he will be in contention to the end. And I think Kimi has the perfect personality to handle that kind of interteam competition. He had some very good quotes about his time with JPM, and I don't think that has changed.

I am telling you, at the next STR/Ferrari test session in Italy, they should let him take a few laps in the f2008. Maybe Ferrari would even just offer more "support" for their engine, like a bulletproof gearbox with the quick shift, not to mention the mounting points for the rear suspension parts... Hey, they did it for Sauber!

Who knows, but Vettel has more potential of any on track that I see. Hamilton is burning very bright because of his equipment, I think Vettel would burn brighter with what I have seen him do in VERY sub-Q3 equipment.

Anyways, I would love to see it!

Chris

Hamilton is better than Vettel. Hamilton is a great driver and it's just not his equipment. He was even better than 2 time champion Alonso last year. And don't say Mclaren favored Hamilton because that's not true.

[Conceptual]

I agree, but you are missing the Michael mentoring him, and then putting up with Kimi, the 800lb gorilla-ninja that he is on the track. Fate alone brings such powerful synergies together at one point, IE: Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Byrne, and to have the ability to take another shot at a home run and not would almost be stupid. The potential of Vettel is very untapped. Imagine him learning from the "best there ever was", and test him against the "best there is now". I think if Vettel goes to Ferrari in 2009, he will be in contention to the end. And I think Kimi has the perfect personality to handle that kind of interteam competition. He had some very good quotes about his time with JPM, and I don't think that has changed.

I am telling you, at the next STR/Ferrari test session in Italy, they should let him take a few laps in the f2008. Maybe Ferrari would even just offer more "support" for their engine, like a bulletproof gearbox with the quick shift, not to mention the mounting points for the rear suspension parts... Hey, they did it for Sauber!

Who knows, but Vettel has more potential of any on track that I see. Hamilton is burning very bright because of his equipment, I think Vettel would burn brighter with what I have seen him do in VERY sub-Q3 equipment.

Anyways, I would love to see it!

Chris

Hamilton is better than Vettel. Hamilton is a great driver and it's just not his equipment. He was even better than 2 time champion Alonso last year. And don't say Mclaren favored Hamilton because that's not true.

You soung very sure of something that is impossible to prove outside identical equipment.

Somethings you cannot judge by degrees of seperation, some things need very direct confrontation to have a realistic fact be determined.

Chris

[f1italia]

I agree, but you are missing the Michael mentoring him, and then putting up with Kimi, the 800lb gorilla-ninja that he is on the track. Fate alone brings such powerful synergies together at one point, IE: Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Byrne, and to have the ability to take another shot at a home run and not would almost be stupid. The potential of Vettel is very untapped. Imagine him learning from the "best there ever was", and test him against the "best there is now". I think if Vettel goes to Ferrari in 2009, he will be in contention to the end. And I think Kimi has the perfect personality to handle that kind of interteam competition. He had some very good quotes about his time with JPM, and I don't think that has changed.

I am telling you, at the next STR/Ferrari test session in Italy, they should let him take a few laps in the f2008. Maybe Ferrari would even just offer more "support" for their engine, like a bulletproof gearbox with the quick shift, not to mention the mounting points for the rear suspension parts... Hey, they did it for Sauber!

Who knows, but Vettel has more potential of any on track that I see. Hamilton is burning very bright because of his equipment, I think Vettel would burn brighter with what I have seen him do in VERY sub-Q3 equipment.

Anyways, I would love to see it!

Chris

Hamilton is better than Vettel. Hamilton is a great driver and it's just not his equipment. He was even better than 2 time champion Alonso last year. And don't say Mclaren favored Hamilton because that's not true.

You soung very sure of something that is impossible to prove outside identical equipment.

Somethings you cannot judge by degrees of seperation, some things need very direct confrontation to have a realistic fact be determined.

Chris

Your giving Vettel to much credit. Hamilton has proved to be a great driver. I have nothing against Vettel but I have not seen enough from him to start saying lets replace Massa. Massa poled again.

[Conceptual]

I have not seen Vettel in top level equipment throw away a 10 point WCC lead in two races due to stupid driver errors either, but you have seen Hamilton do it.

Are you in the same region of space as the rest of us?

Chris