2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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bauc
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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kaepernickus wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 12:37
Lucky wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 08:04
McLaren has the agreement for the supply of German Power Unit for 2018
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2017/07 ... ltima.html

Honda go home
According to a website I've never heard before, I'll wait for something more official or at least slightly more founded.
Speculations will fly sky high till mid September or October, so I'm on the same stance. Till I receive some news from well informed/proven media, all rest I'm considering as pure media speculation
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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I'll be very disappointed for Honda if they leave. It seems like a waste to spend so much money, receive so much criticism, and achieve so little, only to leave in the same uncompetitive state, again.

Throwing in the towel at this point would be equal to them admitting they're not good enough to even share the stage with the European manufacturers. It seems surreal to me, no matter what racing series, Honda always starts off on the back foot but eventually always finds their way.

The F1AT article says they have an agreement should Honda pull out, and that the upgrade delivered less power than advertised. But is only the first stage of the true spec 3 power unit.

It also says that they didn't use the Austria front wing as it didn't deliver the performance they expected. They also go on to say that McLaren has a substantial chassis update for the next race in Hungary, and that they're fitting a complete new power unit for Alonso's car so that they're in the best position for the next round.
Last edited by godlameroso on 14 Jul 2017, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
Saishū kōnā

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RedNEO
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 13:09
I'll be very disappointed for Honda if they leave. It seems like a waste to spend so much money, receive so much criticism, and achieve so little, only to leave in the same uncompetitive state, again.

Throwing in the towel at this point would be equal to them admitting they're not good enough to even share the stage with the European manufacturers. It seems surreal to me, no matter what racing series, Honda always starts off on the back foot but eventually always finds their way.

The F1AT article says they have an agreement should Honda pull out, and that the upgrade delivered less power than advertised. But is only the first stage of the true spec 3 power unit.
If there not good enough there not good enough. Doesn't matter how much they spend. Ofcourse more manufactures are good for F1 but more may be coming round the corner ;)

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RedNEO
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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kaepernickus wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 12:37
Lucky wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 08:04
McLaren has the agreement for the supply of German Power Unit for 2018
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2017/07 ... ltima.html

Honda go home
According to a website I've never heard before, I'll wait for something more official or at least slightly more founded.
Im more worried that you've never heard of that website lol

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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That's just it, they are good enough, their Moto GP engine is one of the best, their Indy engine is arguably better than the GM engine. Even the NSX in Super GT has made a big step up this year, the F1 power unit is the only one that hasn't become competitive yet.
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RedNEO
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Yeah that's great but with respect F1 is not those categories. This is the pinnacle.

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kaepernickus
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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RedNEO wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 13:22
kaepernickus wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 12:37

According to a website I've never heard before, I'll wait for something more official or at least slightly more founded.
Im more worried that you've never heard of that website lol
I don't speak Italian plus from having a quick look it doesn't seem like I've missed anything at all.
So I think you can stop worrying...

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RedNEO
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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kaepernickus wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 13:34
RedNEO wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 13:22
kaepernickus wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 12:37

According to a website I've never heard before, I'll wait for something more official or at least slightly more founded.
Im more worried that you've never heard of that website lol
I don't speak Italian plus from having a quick look it doesn't seem like I've missed anything at all.
So I think you can stop worrying...
lol it's all good Buddy let's just wait to see what happens :)

Del Boy
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Sonador wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 20:52
GoranF1 wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 18:30
Does Rikardo the company that makes Mclaren road car engines....have the resources to build F1 PU?
No i don't think so, but maybe Cosworth does?
Ricardo made WInning world super bike engines for many years and get involved in all sorts of cutting edge technology, connected with vehicles, land speed records, Army personel carriers, electric cars etc. So they know what they're doing. However, the F1 PU is very complex, making the ICE is within their abilities including the TC. The other bits would require a lot of money, a lot of technical assistance and a lot of time to make a competitive PU. I think I read that Honda is worlds largest engine manufacturer and they are struggling!!

vantage87
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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British Grand Prix: Fernando Alonso receives 30-place grid penalty
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40613733
...
"The new engine is one of Honda's 'Phase Three' fastest development ICEs, which give a power boost of a reputed 8kw (10bhp) over the Phase Two. That puts them just over 62kw (83bhp) down on a customer Mercedes engine."
...
"Insiders say the team would like to split with the Japanese company and use Mercedes customer engines next year and are taking steps behind the scenes to make that happen but the situation remains in flux."

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etusch
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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vantage87 wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 18:37
British Grand Prix: Fernando Alonso receives 30-place grid penalty
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40613733
...
"The new engine is one of Honda's 'Phase Three' fastest development ICEs, which give a power boost of a reputed 8kw (10bhp) over the Phase Two. That puts them just over 62kw (83bhp) down on a customer Mercedes engine."
...
"Insiders say the team would like to split with the Japanese company and use Mercedes customer engines next year and are taking steps behind the scenes to make that happen but the situation remains in flux."
Is that mean extra 10 hp from spec 3 PU?

BosF1
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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etusch wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 18:59
vantage87 wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 18:37
British Grand Prix: Fernando Alonso receives 30-place grid penalty
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40613733
...
"The new engine is one of Honda's 'Phase Three' fastest development ICEs, which give a power boost of a reputed 8kw (10bhp) over the Phase Two. That puts them just over 62kw (83bhp) down on a customer Mercedes engine."
...
"Insiders say the team would like to split with the Japanese company and use Mercedes customer engines next year and are taking steps behind the scenes to make that happen but the situation remains in flux."
Is that mean extra 10 hp from spec 3 PU?
Yes, it means 10 bhp extra over Spec 2.

zeph
zeph
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Even if McLaren were to revert back to Mercedes PU's, I believe it would only be temporary. Ron Dennis' original view that only works teams will compete for the championship seems to hold true.

So if Mercedes was only a stopgap solution while searching for something better, how long would it take for a new PU supplier to be competitive?

As painful as it seems, sticking with Honda may be their best option here.

Some historical context:
Honda returned to Formula One in 1983 as an engine supplier for Spirit and stayed in the sport for a decade, at various times teaming with Williams (1983–87), Lotus (1987–88), McLaren (1988–92) and finally Tyrrell (1991).

......

As an engine supplier, Honda made its World Championship debut with Spirit's Swedish driver Stefan Johansson at the 1983 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. Johansson qualified in an encouraging 14th place (although some 4.5 seconds slower than pole), though he would retire after just 5 laps with fuel problems. Johansson had given the Honda its on track debut earlier in the year at the non-championship 1983 Race of Champions at Brands Hatch (the last non-championship race in F1 history) where despite unreliability, the 1.5-litre turbocharged V6 engine dubbed the RA163-E had impressed with its speed. By the final race of the 1983 season in South Africa, Honda had begun its association with Williams where reigning (and outgoing) World Champion Keke Rosberg served notice that the Honda was on the pace by qualifying 6th, only 7/10's slower than the Ferrari of pole winner Patrick Tambay.

Rosberg would give Honda its first win as an engine supplier when he outlasted the field to win the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix and by the end of the 1985 season where Briton Nigel Mansell and Rosberg won the final 3 races of the season (Rosberg had already won that year's Detroit Grand Prix), it was clear that Honda had the engine to beat in Formula One.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_in_ ... .931992.29

Granted, back then it only took them about two years to be competitive, but there were no restrictions on testing and number of engines at the time. Today's limitations really hurts in-season development (the wiki I have linked to above mentions just how much development and testing Honda did in those days), as does the testing ban.

I'm not optimistic about Honda's chances here, but I really don't see any better options for McLaren, so I figure better to ride it out and see if they can become more competitive over time.

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etusch
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Do you know where this tambay name come from?

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Redragon
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 12:23

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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BosF1 wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 20:52
etusch wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 18:59
vantage87 wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 18:37
British Grand Prix: Fernando Alonso receives 30-place grid penalty
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40613733
...
"The new engine is one of Honda's 'Phase Three' fastest development ICEs, which give a power boost of a reputed 8kw (10bhp) over the Phase Two. That puts them just over 62kw (83bhp) down on a customer Mercedes engine."
...
"Insiders say the team would like to split with the Japanese company and use Mercedes customer engines next year and are taking steps behind the scenes to make that happen but the situation remains in flux."
Is that mean extra 10 hp from spec 3 PU?
Yes, it means 10 bhp extra over Spec 2.
Well if the numbers at the beginning of the year were right, honda was supposed to be over or around 100hp down on Mercedes so if Spec 3 only gains 10hp how come can Honda be 83hp down on Mercedes with Spec 3? No good Maths from Mr Benson because that means they gained 17hp.

That counting that Mercedes haven't gain during this year because if Mercedes has increase their Hp that means that Honda has increased and gained Hp towards Mercedes. Because if Mercedes gained as an example during spring 20 hp that would mean honda has gained 40 hp or 50 hp if the numbers at the beginning of the year were right.

So his speculation is wrong in many ways and his maths are totally wrong.