2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

[f1316]

Should be an easy one for Mercedes, barring any drama. Long run times, especially for Bottas shows a large gap to Ferrari and then Red Bull. One thing is for sure, Unlike RB, both Merc and Ferrari would be running their PU components in a very conservative mode. The situation is so reminiscent of Baku.

Here are the long run times.

https://i.gyazo.com/afe0d3392c493ad1d04 ... 8c8356.png

I don't see the large gap BOT vs VET; Ricciardo and Kimi on SS, as I said, so not comparative.

BOT clearly went harder at the start (and hence faster) and you can see greater deg as a result. I grant that teams don't show their full hands in FP2 but if anyone looks like they were driving to a delta, it was Vettel.

Mercedes' drivers also don't share your confidence:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... ry-935617/

[CriXus]

Easy one for Mercedes, i don't think so.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 96777.html

Driver Average Laps Tire
1. Raikkonen 1.22,017 9 super-soft
2. Ricciardo 1.22,631 5 + 10 super-soft
3. Stopping 1.22,652 8 super-soft
4. Hulkenberg 1.22,838 7 + 9 super-soft
5. Bottas 1.23,058 7 super-soft
6. Hamilton 1.23,428 6 super-soft
7. Sainz 1.23,656 5 + 10 super-soft
8. Alonso 1.23,984 9 super-soft
9. Ocon 1.24,009 5 super-soft
10. Perez 1.24,061 7 super-soft
11. Stroll 1.24,172 10 super-soft
12. Grozjean 1.24,259 7 super-soft
13. Ericsson 1.25,052 7 super-soft
---------------------------------------------------
1. Bottas 1.22,007 9 soft
2. Vettel 1.22,217 10 soft
3. Hamilton 1.22,431 8 soft
4. Perez 1.23,653 8 soft
5. Kvyat 1.23,848 9 soft
6. Ocon 1.23,921 10 soft

[Sevach]

I just don't see how Vettel is going to do the remaining races without a penalty. Are they rotating just 4 turbos for the whole year? Imo that would be idiotic, as used items will lose efficiency over time and you are restricting development unless you agree to a penalty. I would guess and say that Vettel will get his 5th turbo and penalty at either Spa or Monza. Would be very shocked if they don't do it there.

Maybe he was listening in...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/28/f ... o-changes/

[marmer]

Side note - Brundle is still apparently recovering from whatever happened to him in Silverstone, which is a great shame. Croft + di Resta on Sky was a very uninspired duo last time. Brundle is the far better commentator when compared to either of them.

You must be joking. Brundle has been awful for years.paul might not be perfect but at least he is newer and knows more about the current cars.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Treble]

Maybe Ferrari wont get any penalties this season regarding PU elements. They can rotate turbos.

Maybe turbochargers are just like drive axles that you can swap them left to right an get more life out of them?

I laughed out loud reading that. Seriously, thank you.

It will be for sure a mind game from Mattia Binotto

[giantfan10]

Again I think you are misinterpreting stuff.



This means if they now fit 2 new TC (5th and 6th) in in the FP1 and FP2 they can only use the last one of those in further events without penalties. They can still go back to the previous TC (1-4) without penalties. Even tho I admit the wording is a bit misleading, but I think Honda already reverted back to some previous components after taking some penalties. Not sure.

If they're introducing a new element though it's because they can't salvage the old ones, so it becomes a circular argument. Additionally there's always a penalty with each new element. I was pretty sure when reading the updated rules last year that they specifically mentioned any new elements would need to be used as the current race element, and that multiple new elements would be allowed only for practice sessions. Perhaps as you say it doesn't include the original four.

Indeed.
This may well hamstring Vettel. Mercedes can upgrade their TC if they can without attracting penalties. Ferrari now cannot, at least not on Vettel's car.

And updating your turbo consists of what exactly? After teams get their turbo size right for their application there is little to upgrade unless its for reliability reasons....
Everything it seems has to be overblown into some advantage for the team you root for......if Vettel doesnt damage any of his 3 turbos going forward he should be fine...

[Fifty]

Anyone catch who Ricciardo was talking about when he said he couldn't stand that kids face?

[Stormy]

Anyone catch who Ricciardo was talking about when he said he couldn't stand that kids face?

Esteban Ocon

[Fifty]

Ah similar to the k mag and hamilton issue..
Lol!

[Stormy]

Ah similar to the k mag and hamilton issue..
Lol!

Haha yeah.
Here's the video where Ric explains himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbumVuTv-EM

[drunkf1fan]

Anyone else find it a tad suspicious that all of a sudden a Ferrari B team are trying to jam up Hamilton as Ferrari seem to have lost a significant step in pace to Mercedes, are falling further back in the WCC and would to most people seem to be about to fall behind in the WDC as well? Hamilton who always blocks and always has, is only being complained about in the past two races of which while the Grosjean one LOOKED bad, it was pretty obvious he wasn't actually blocked at all.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Easy one for Mercedes, i don't think so.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 96777.html

Driver Average Laps Tire
1. Raikkonen 1.22,017 9 super-soft
2. Ricciardo 1.22,631 5 + 10 super-soft
3. Stopping 1.22,652 8 super-soft
4. Hulkenberg 1.22,838 7 + 9 super-soft
5. Bottas 1.23,058 7 super-soft
6. Hamilton 1.23,428 6 super-soft
7. Sainz 1.23,656 5 + 10 super-soft
8. Alonso 1.23,984 9 super-soft
9. Ocon 1.24,009 5 super-soft
10. Perez 1.24,061 7 super-soft
11. Stroll 1.24,172 10 super-soft
12. Grozjean 1.24,259 7 super-soft
13. Ericsson 1.25,052 7 super-soft
---------------------------------------------------
1. Bottas 1.22,007 9 soft
2. Vettel 1.22,217 10 soft
3. Hamilton 1.22,431 8 soft
4. Perez 1.23,653 8 soft
5. Kvyat 1.23,848 9 soft
6. Ocon 1.23,921 10 soft

So according to the article, Mercedes is slower by 1 second on Super Soft and 0.4 second slower on Softs. Yeah, believable.

There is another on Autosport (Premium). Here, Red Bull stands to out-qualify both Merc and Ferrari AND Red Bull ahead of Ferrari in race.
http://www.autosport.com/premium/featur ... 1500220707

PURE PACE RANKING
1 Red Bull (Ricciardo) 1m18.455s
2 Ferrari (Vettel) 1m18.638s
3 Mercedes (Bottas) 1m18.656s
4 Renault (Hulkenberg) 1m19.714s
5 McLaren (Alonso) 1m19.815s
6 Toro Rosso (Sainz) 1m19.834s
7 Force India (Ocon) 1m20.126s
8 Williams (Stroll) 1m20.791s
9 Haas (Magnussen) 1m21.345s
10 Sauber (Ericsson) 1m21.559s

LONG RUN RANKING
Super-soft
1 Mercedes (Bottas) 1m22.551s (2 laps)
2 Red Bull (Ricciardo) 1m22.642s (9 laps)
3 Ferrari (Raikkonen) 1m22.723s (5 laps)
4 Renault (Hulkenberg) 1m23.434s (10 laps)
5 Toro Rosso (Sainz) 1m23.616s (10 laps)
6 Force India (Ocon) 1m24.009s (2 laps)
7 McLaren (Alonso) 1m24.107s (9 laps)
8 Williams (Stroll) 1m24.172s (6 laps)
9 Haas (Grosjean) 1m24.259s (5 laps)
10 Sauber (Ericsson) 1m25.318s (6 laps)

Soft
1 Mercedes (Bottas) 1m22.049s (6 laps)
2 Ferrari (Vettel) 1m22.413s (8 laps)
3 Force India (Perez) 1m23.635s (5 laps)
4 Toro Rosso (Kvyat) 1m23.996s (7 laps)

[GPR-A duplicate2]

BOT clearly went harder at the start (and hence faster) and you can see greater deg as a result.

If you have been watching F1 for long enough, you would understand that, when the lights go at the start, drivers really push hard and especially the leader, to get out of the DRS zone (on full tanks that should put highest pressure on tyres). But then you see, the tyres don't give up all that off and you would see the pace keeps improving before the driver starts managing it.

An Example from British GP (race 1st stint) here. Obviously, both Hamilton and Kimi were pushing hard at the start, but there was no such degradation as you point out. I bet, you will not see any such drastic degradation in race on Sunday either.

[f1316]

BOT clearly went harder at the start (and hence faster) and you can see greater deg as a result.

If you have been watching F1 for long enough, you would understand that, when the lights go at the start, drivers really push hard and especially the leader, to get out of the DRS zone (on full tanks that should put highest pressure on tyres). But then you see, the tyres don't give up all that off and you would see the pace keeps improving before the driver starts managing it.

An Example from British GP (race 1st stint) here. Obviously, both Hamilton and Kimi were pushing hard at the start, but there was no such degradation as you point out. I bet, you will not see any such drastic degradation in race on Sunday either.

https://i.gyazo.com/5b958eb01d5d61f6ca0 ... 50d0ed.png

Having watched F1 for nearly 30 years, I know that Hungary and Silverstone are pretty different tracks with different characteristics. Showing deg at Silverstone has absolutely no baring on what we can expect at Hungary; in many ways you would expect higher deg at Silverstone, I grant you, but again, very different track, very different temps, very different car configurations (I.e. much higher downforce levels in Hungary).

Whether or not we will actually see that kind of deg remains to be seen, but the runs you posted clearly show lap times dropping off.

[basti313]

BOT clearly went harder at the start (and hence faster) and you can see greater deg as a result.

If you have been watching F1 for long enough, you would understand that, when the lights go at the start, drivers really push hard and especially the leader, to get out of the DRS zone (on full tanks that should put highest pressure on tyres). But then you see, the tyres don't give up all that off and you would see the pace keeps improving before the driver starts managing it.

An Example from British GP (race 1st stint) here. Obviously, both Hamilton and Kimi were pushing hard at the start, but there was no such degradation as you point out. I bet, you will not see any such drastic degradation in race on Sunday either.

https://i.gyazo.com/5b958eb01d5d61f6ca0 ... 50d0ed.png

Having watched F1 for nearly 30 years, I know that Hungary and Silverstone are pretty different tracks with different characteristics. Showing deg at Silverstone has absolutely no baring on what we can expect at Hungary; in many ways you would expect higher deg at Silverstone, I grant you, but again, very different track, very different temps, very different car configurations (I.e. much higher downforce levels in Hungary).

Whether or not we will actually see that kind of deg remains to be seen, but the runs you posted clearly show lap times dropping off.

I do not think you can read anything into the few laps posted from Bot.
Looking at the Ham times just above your post, you can easily see, that there is no deg at all. Without doing any fuel correction, just comparing the times to Sochi where they had no deg at all, you can see a better time development.