UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

[FW17]

Why the hate towards EV

most people use cars on a everyday basis within the limits of EV now. If the cost of batteries come down, then the price of the car really comes down. Why do we need a petrol or a diesel car for everyday commute?

It is fun travelling a quiet noiseless car.

[Tommy Cookers]

I think the point of this situation is we are being told what we must do by people who spent the last 30 years telling us to go diesel ....
and thereby creating what they now tell us is a problem that must be fixed

when our city air is cleaner than it has ever been

what some call hate seems to me a fair reaction
lots of us don't work/live in London and do need a car with proper range
so far the UK has spent about $500 million of taxpayer money on the 'Japanese' EV industry

this seems relevant http://www.machinedesign.com/motion-con ... e-gasoline

[Greg Locock]

It'd be interesting to see a price comparison of an unsubsidised BEV vs an IC engined car that meets similar accommodation/range/cruising speed specs. I think that unsubsidised price is the real issue. Not being a champagne socialist I'm not really very interested in subsidising other people's cars, and vice versa.

[FW17]

I think the point of this situation is we are being told what we must do by people who spent the last 30 years telling us to go diesel ....
and thereby creating what they now tell us is a problem that must be fixed

when our city air is cleaner than it has ever been

what some call hate seems to me a fair reaction
lots of us don't work/live in London and do need a car with proper range
so far the UK has spent about $500 million of taxpayer money on the 'Japanese' EV industry

this seems relevant http://www.machinedesign.com/motion-con ... e-gasoline

This is a way of protecting high tech jobs. You cannot be center of high tech engineering and use tech from last century.

Diesel was high tech in 90's, it protected Euro zone industry from US and Japanese manufacturers.

The same is with EV technology. It is about leading technology and promoting the same so as to protect from competing countries. It Euro Zone and UK dont do anything to promote the manufacture of EV, they are going to loose out big. Tesla has a huge jump on the market, they are having 30% savings in cost of battery pack in comparison to others. Soon $35000 car will be $20000 and the entire car industry in Europe will be dead.

It will be Nokia once again

Weather you need it or not is immaterial, IC engines are a thing of the past. No point in holding on to mechanical world when the electronic world has a lot more to offer. Yes there is a charm of playing with a Hornby train set, but it is no Playstation. Time to mature up and not be Clarkson.

[Chene_Mostert]

I think the point of this situation is we are being told what we must do by people who spent the last 30 years telling us to go diesel ....
and thereby creating what they now tell us is a problem that must be fixed

when our city air is cleaner than it has ever been

what some call hate seems to me a fair reaction
lots of us don't work/live in London and do need a car with proper range
so far the UK has spent about $500 million of taxpayer money on the 'Japanese' EV industry

this seems relevant http://www.machinedesign.com/motion-con ... e-gasoline

This is a way of protecting high tech jobs. You cannot be center of high tech engineering and use tech from last century.

Diesel was high tech in 90's, it protected Euro zone industry from US and Japanese manufacturers.

The same is with EV technology. It is about leading technology and promoting the same so as to protect from competing countries. It Euro Zone and UK dont do anything to promote the manufacture of EV, they are going to loose out big. Tesla has a huge jump on the market, they are having 30% savings in cost of battery pack in comparison to others. Soon $35000 car will be $20000 and the entire car industry in Europe will be dead.

It will be Nokia once again

Weather you need it or not is immaterial, IC engines are a thing of the past. No point in holding on to mechanical world when the electronic world has a lot more to offer. Yes there is a charm of playing with a Hornby train set, but it is no Playstation. Time to mature up and not be Clarkson.

IC will continue well into the future, What more does electric have to offer?

[Andres125sx]

I think the point of this situation is we are being told what we must do by people who spent the last 30 years telling us to go diesel ....
and thereby creating what they now tell us is a problem that must be fixed

when our city air is cleaner than it has ever been

Not sure if you ignored my question intentionally or not, so I´ll try again...

Who told you diesel were the way to go to save the planet?

Fair question, here in Spain I´ve never read or heard such an absurd statement, so I´m not sure if in the UK that was really what "they" said, or it´s just a tantrum from someone who don´t like EVs and is trying to discredit those who say EVs are the future

Obviously diesels have always been sold as fuel efficient cars, but that´s very different from saying they´re eco-friendly

[Andres125sx]

IC will continue well into the future, What more does electric have to offer?

1- A flat torque curve wich ICEs will never match
2- Mechanical simplicity wich means much extended inspection services and reliability wich simply can´t be compared
3- Much much much higher lifespan. Electric motors don´t suffer any wear, replace the battery (wich will be a lot more affordable in a near future), and motor bearings as much (wich is fairly easy and shouldn´t be necessary) and you get a brand new power unit performing exactly as new
4- Better weight distribution so better handling
5- It´s possible to install some renewable energies at home (solar panels, wind turbines for particulars...) and become self-sufficient. Then you can laugh at home while watching petrol prices going higher and higher


And take into account I´ve only talked about user advantages, didn´t even mention anything about emissions

[Tommy Cookers]

yes Andres I did ignore your question(s)
because I thought the inevitable argument over more demand for fossil-fuel generated electricity is better in 'my' old thread 'Energy Distribution'
in General section - Off Topic Chat - Page 3
(judging by your naive point no 5 in your post before this one, my thought was right, you seem lacking in energy numeracy)

the answer you asked for .....
the publicly-funded TV companies (BBC and fellow traveller Channel 4) and all the liberal newspapers and Govt advice constantly for 30 years .....
told us the diesel was 'much more environmentally-friendly' - famous words parroted endlessly by beardy-weirdy Chris Goffey
(presenter of 'Top Gear' for the years of its relentless suicide as consumerist TG, this leading to the car-enthusiast TG of today)
tax on diesel fuel was lower (at that time) and car licence fee was made lower for diesels (this based on CO2 emission)

the real reason for this was the collapse of the market for heating oil as Europe suddenly had indigenous gas from the North Sea
French and German etc oil refineries being more politically influenced re unemployment than commercially influenced

[Chene_Mostert]

IC will continue well into the future, What more does electric have to offer?

1- A flat torque curve wich ICEs will never match
2- Mechanical simplicity wich means much extended inspection services and reliability wich simply can´t be compared
3- Much much much higher lifespan. Electric motors don´t suffer any wear, replace the battery (wich will be a lot more affordable in a near future), and motor bearings as much (wich is fairly easy and shouldn´t be necessary) and you get a brand new power unit performing exactly as new
4- Better weight distribution so better handling
5- It´s possible to install some renewable energies at home (solar panels, wind turbines for particulars...) and become self-sufficient. Then you can laugh at home while watching petrol prices going higher and higher


And take into account I´ve only talked about user advantages, didn´t even mention anything about emissions

Point 1 I agree with.
point 2 I will contest (never had mechanical failure on car) and add electronic reliability concerns ( got delayed once and stranded once due to electronic problems).
Point 3 I have never had to sell a car due to high wear on engine, only a need for change, so I question that advantage.
Point 4. Perfect weight distribution is not limited to Electric only.
Point 5 I do agree with, but how many liters do you need to save to offset cost?

Emissions, we need to look at the entire energy cycle to establish really how green we are, not just the political propaganda we are being fed.

Once these Electrics become the norm, I will most certainly give it a go, But being forced into having to make only one decision I find very uncomfortable, rather they should let the advantages "speak for it self"

[FW17]

Point 5 I do agree with, but how many liters do you need to save to offset cost?

A tesla model 3 costs 26K pounds with everything, a base model Golf costs 20K pounds with nothing on it? So what do you save?

With a 65 khw battery you can run your house for the night and charge the batteries in office during the day

[Tommy Cookers]

a good read https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... f-a-dc-one

remember that EVs mostly run on fossil or nuclear fuel and are no more than 30% efficient

EVs reward slow driving more than ICEVs do - you too can be a range hog !

[Just_a_fan]

EVs can work as part of a total package of measures. For example, a domestic PV array charging a battery pack during the day. In the evening, the house uses the battery for lights, the TV, etc. Any remaining charge once bedtime arrives is dumped in to the car. The car then finishes charging from the mains overnight. This makes best use of the resources.

Overnight electricity can be coming from a variety of sources that might otherwise be throttled inefficiently. A good mix of energy sources is good here. Renewables and nuclear are both good, obviously, but gas isn't that bad in this context.

The total pollution from this sort of scheme is going to be less than an ICE + traditional grid generation.

The best bit about this scheme is that, for many people, daily journey lengths are much less than EV range. Sure, some need good commuting range, but many only do 20-50 miles a day. In summertime, a decent battery pack with PV might be sufficient to charge a car sufficiently for 20-50 miles.

As with many scary things in life, the reality is that small steps can make a big difference. Very quickly one is making big changes without real life affecting consequences.

If I could have my Range Rover as an EV with 200 mile range, I'd be very happy. I do more miles than that in a day occasionally but mostly I don't. So most of the time I'd be unaware of the difference.

[graham.reeds]

The drive I did at the weekend would be impossible in electric: Left Teesside, drove to Prudhoe, test drove a Cayman, headed south through the lake district down to Birmingham, swung towards London ending at Heathrow. Astra 1.6d hire car. 300+ miles. A Model S would be at the limit of its endurance.

I can see electric cars being the future. Can you imagine transplanting the system and drive train from a Tesla S into a Gallardo?

However the UK government always miss targets. 2050 possibly.

[Tommy Cookers]

well the UK is committed to an 80% decarbonisation by 2050 of all energy
(not just the fraction used to make electricity, though decarbonisation of a fraction of that fraction is a new religion)
much of this decarbonisation is fraudulent, which is why we excuse these areas of fraud as renewables

80% of everything is a lot, all that domestic, workplace, agricultural and industrial heating

of course much of the world's exploding population is burning ever more coal, oil, and gas
and has made no commitment to decarbonisation

[Zynerji]

IC will continue well into the future, What more does electric have to offer?

1- A flat torque curve wich ICEs will never match
2- Mechanical simplicity wich means much extended inspection services and reliability wich simply can´t be compared
3- Much much much higher lifespan. Electric motors don´t suffer any wear, replace the battery (wich will be a lot more affordable in a near future), and motor bearings as much (wich is fairly easy and shouldn´t be necessary) and you get a brand new power unit performing exactly as new
4- Better weight distribution so better handling
5- It´s possible to install some renewable energies at home (solar panels, wind turbines for particulars...) and become self-sufficient. Then you can laugh at home while watching petrol prices going higher and higher


And take into account I´ve only talked about user advantages, didn´t even mention anything about emissions

The petrol prices go down the more EV come into being due to supply and demand.

EV, by its very existence guarantees the continued lifespan of IC vehicles.