Renault Sport Racing and McLaren Racing are pleased to announce they have agreed an engine supply partnership for the 2018, 2019 and 2020 seasons. The deal will see Renault Sport Racing supply McLaren with Formula 1 power units, while also establishing a close working relationship with McLaren’s engineers and technicians.
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Is McLaren's chassis really that good? Red Bull manages to get virtually to the front row of the grid, overcompensating their awful engine in these wet conditions. McLaren is only P10 and P14 with a chassis that should star in these conditions, as the team claims it's up there with the top teams. Surely, not P2, but you'd expect a better result than this under heavy rain. I'd be happy to hear if someone disagrees. Not trying to step on anyones toes here.
In MY opinion, getting a car to work in the rain you need to have:
1- more POWER in the PU. If you do you'll be running more downforce for a dry race than cars with less power. Therefore you'll have more DF in quali.
2- Be able to put alot of heat into the tires.(A Merc strength in the cold).
McLaren will be fine, but it seems quite clear that the switch to Renault will happen. This will mean that McLaren can fight for podiums/wins in the next three years and switch to their own engine when the new engines are coming. I think some people here really underestimate how long it will take before Honda are a match for anyone.
"We are starting to see some good light at the end of the tunnel now with Honda, we just need to make sure that light is getting brighter and that tunnel is getting shorter."
Zak in the pre quali show on Sky on the paddock.
Is McLaren's chassis really that good? Red Bull manages to get virtually to the front row of the grid, overcompensating their awful engine in these wet conditions. McLaren is only P10 and P14 with a chassis that should star in these conditions, as the team claims it's up there with the top teams. Surely, not P2, but you'd expect a better result than this under heavy rain. I'd be happy to hear if someone disagrees. Not trying to step on anyones toes here.
No, you're correct. The McLaren chassis is a piece of crap. Williams and Force India have one of the best chassis. Ferrari is also crap. It's probably caused by the superior driveability of the Renault, but hey, that's not the one you guys want right. Image what will happen when it's dry on Sunday and McLaren are driven around with a wet setup.
Is McLaren's chassis really that good? Red Bull manages to get virtually to the front row of the grid, overcompensating their awful engine in these wet conditions. McLaren is only P10 and P14 with a chassis that should star in these conditions, as the team claims it's up there with the top teams. Surely, not P2, but you'd expect a better result than this under heavy rain. I'd be happy to hear if someone disagrees. Not trying to step on anyones toes here.
No, you're correct. The McLaren chassis is a piece of crap. Williams and Force India have one of the best chassis. Ferrari is also crap. It's probably caused by the superior driveability of the Renault, but hey, that's not the one you guys want right. Image what will happen when it's dry on Sunday and McLaren are driven around with a wet setup.
Stop harping about the crap Renault engines, Honda ain't leaving, suck it up. Given Fernando's skillset, it wasn't overly optimistic to expect a P5 given rookie Vandoorne finished in 10th.
Formula 1's managing director of motorsports, Ross Brawn, says there is a "lot of work going on" to keep Honda in the sport, amid reports McLaren will dump the Japanese manufacturer next week.
Guys McLaren long term plan is a joint venture with Cosworth (Zak is in the board of both companies), the engine switch is only based on which engine will makes the best results in the next 3 years.
Is McLaren's chassis really that good? Red Bull manages to get virtually to the front row of the grid, overcompensating their awful engine in these wet conditions. McLaren is only P10 and P14 with a chassis that should star in these conditions, as the team claims it's up there with the top teams. Surely, not P2, but you'd expect a better result than this under heavy rain. I'd be happy to hear if someone disagrees. Not trying to step on anyones toes here.
In MY opinion, getting a car to work in the rain you need to have:
1- more POWER in the PU. If you do you'll be running more downforce for a dry race than cars with less power. Therefore you'll have more DF in quali.
2- Be able to put alot of heat into the tires.(A Merc strength in the cold).
3- a Great driver.
The third item, can't make up for 1 and 2.
Isn't drivability of an engine more important under these conditions than outright power? Spec 3.7 should have improved that part according to sources on here. Of course, the cars with more power have the advantage, but RBR showed a good chassis can compensate that a bit. Top speed difference between McLaren and the others was about 12 kph in the speed traps. In rainy conditions, that doesn't play too much of a role anymore. We're not talking about a 30 kph difference. Yet Vandoorne is over 3,5 seconds slower.
So that leaves point 2, and since multiple drivers have complained about the tyres, that could be the problem.. We all know how shitty these Pirelli wet tyres are. They've been like this for years now.
I just thought these conditions would suit McLaren more and give them the chance to put up a fight. So that's why I asked. But you're right, there are multiple possible causes for their poor performance today.
Is McLaren's chassis really that good? Red Bull manages to get virtually to the front row of the grid, overcompensating their awful engine in these wet conditions. McLaren is only P10 and P14 with a chassis that should star in these conditions, as the team claims it's up there with the top teams. Surely, not P2, but you'd expect a better result than this under heavy rain. I'd be happy to hear if someone disagrees. Not trying to step on anyones toes here.
In MY opinion, getting a car to work in the rain you need to have:
1- more POWER in the PU. If you do you'll be running more downforce for a dry race than cars with less power. Therefore you'll have more DF in quali.
2- Be able to put alot of heat into the tires.(A Merc strength in the cold).
3- a Great driver.
The third item, can't make up for 1 and 2.
Isn't drivability of an engine more important under these conditions than outright power? Spec 3.7 should have improved that part according to sources on here. Of course, the cars with more power have the advantage, but RBR showed a good chassis can compensate that a bit. Top speed difference between McLaren and the others was about 12 kph in the speed traps. In rainy conditions, that doesn't play too much of a role anymore. We're not talking about a 30 kph difference. Yet Vandoorne is over 3,5 seconds slower.
So that leaves point 2, and since multiple drivers have complained about the tyres, that could be the problem.. We all know how shitty these Pirelli wet tyres are. They've been like this for years now.
I just thought these conditions would suit McLaren more and give them the chance to put up a fight. So that's why I asked. But you're right, there are multiple possible causes for their poor performance today.
Loss of power for Vandoorne. Alonso said P5 was posssible.
I can't verify the source, but here is an interesting interview:
On an extremely wet day at the Monza circuit , we were able to spend a few minutes with Honda'schief of staff in the hospitality of the Japanese rider in the Paddock of the Italian track only hours before the supposed limit imposed on Mclaren to take the decision to continue with them or move to equip Renault engines. A serious but honest Hasegawa told us about the news of the supposed 'divorce interruptus' with McLaren, after Fernando was shown to beconciliatory and satisfied with the new developments in the 3.7 specification.
Formula F1: "Today was the deadline imposed by McLaren to make a final decision on the power unit that will lead next year, what can you tell us about it?"
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " As far as I know, we still have a contract in place and no one has told us otherwise . We continue to work to improve the power unit as well as our performance. "
-FF1: "Fernando Alonso claimed that the ultimatum in McLaren to veto you was flatly false and praised the progress of the last specification, what role do you think the Asturian plays in the negotiations?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "It is a relief to know that Fernando is satisfied with the new 3.7 specification of our engine. I am happy to know that Alonso has not lost faith in Honda . It is our duty to continue to make improvements to renew McLaren. "
-FF1: "Are you aware that both Zak Brown and Eric Boullier have met with Cyril Abiteboul and the Renault Dome to try to receive the supply of French engines in 2018?"
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "Too much has been said lately but it is not something that concerns us directly . We have our role and it is to improve performance with new specifications. "
-FF1: "So if you end up breaking your relationship with McLaren, would you be willing to become ToroRosso sole suppliers so you do not get out of Formula 1?"
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " We do not seeany exclusive relationship as a driver with any team other than McLaren ."
-FF1: "It protects the regulation of Formula 1 with the limit of equipment that could supply Renault. In addition, Liberty can not afford to lose an engine supplier ... "
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " Regarding Renault and Toro Rosso I can not tell you anything; as for us we have a contract in force and we intend to comply with it although improving our performance. "
-FF1: "On the other hand the economic aspect is of vital importance, can that be the main motivation of Toro Rosso to sign with you or the intention of Redbull to sign with you exclusively within a couple of seasons when Helmut Marko Do you expect them to be competitive?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " Let's end up winning in Formula 1 is a fact, the problem is how long it will take us.We have a sponsorship contractwith McLaren as well as supplier of power units so that not only can not break lightly but also enjoy a situation of privilege that Toro Rosso would not have since the negotiations to build our engines they do not include economic incentive but vice versa. "
-FF1: "The compensation to break contract with McLaren is 100 million as rumored?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "I can not tell you the exact amount but as I told you, breaking a contract like this has consequences and they are not cheap."
-FF1: "About Alonso's abandonment at Spa, do you think it was deliberate on his part or was there some kind of problem really?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " Although the engine showed no obvious signs of problems in Spa's telemetry , it is true that in the Monza frees there was a setback with the same propeller that required intervention on our part."
-FF1: "Supplying a second team was virtually unthinkable in Ron Dennis's time, does McLaren have the key to providing Toro Rosso with thrusters?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " It is a clause of the contract as McLaren must approve any other type of supply that we establish in the category."
-FF1: "I'm sure Ron Dennis would have blocked a maneuver that aims to end the long-term Honda engine at Red Bull, who have never had exclusivity with a driver like McLaren now ..."
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "Probably, but times have changed. As I say, our priority is and will remain McLaren. The situation with Toro Rosso is still merely circumstantial . "
-FF1: "Is the target still achieving a world championship with McLaren?"
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "Of course, wedo not specify the deadlines but we will not give up on our drive to achieve a championship with McLaren. Our goals right now are quite realistic and we want to continue to score and improve reliability to satisfy both McLaren and its riders. "
-FF1: "Do you think that the rotation of the Honda engineers makes it difficult to adapt due to the complexity of the current engines?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: " Our culture as a company involves working in different departments within the company. I myself was a design engineer in street cars and also worked in R & D as well as in the competition and environmental department. It is not a disadvantage but a philosophy . "
-FF1: "Do you hope for a change in the performance of your engines with the new regulations that will simplify the current engines within a couple of seasons?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "Obviously, the current generation of power units is too complex and caught us by surprise. In addition, we continue with the same concept of motor without modifying the design of the turbine and compressor, so progress will continue to arrive through small changes in the progressive specifications. Until the engine concept is modified, the trend will continue. "
-FF1: "How has your simulator problems affected the new propeller specification?"
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "We have improved the problems with the correlation between the mono cylinder of the test bench and the real propeller, in which we have improved the feeding as well as the vibrations but we still have to optimize the accumulation and energy supply , which follows being one of the weaknesses of the new specification. "
-FF1: "In conclusion, will we have surprise and change of supplier?
-Yusuke Hasegawa: "Surely not.We will continue in Formula 1 next year with McLaren . "
I really hope, whatever decision McLaren take, they take for their team and the fans. I see Renault as a massive side-step. If they release Honda, they're not just undermining themselves, they're also handing a direct rival in Red Bull a mighty sweet works deal.
I don't know how many of you are aware, but Red Bull have a veto on who Renault can supply. If they green light the McLaren supply, their intentions are clear as crystal.
In the ideal world, McLaren should stick to Honda, take the money they get and keep Alonso on a multi year deal on the condition that he keeps his potty mouth shut.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"
I really hope, whatever decision McLaren take, they take for their team and the fans. I see Renault as a massive side-step. If they release Honda, they're not just undermining themselves, they're also handing a direct rival in Red Bull a mighty sweet works deal.
I don't know how many of you are aware, but Red Bull have a veto on who Renault can supply. If they green light the McLaren supply, their intentions are clear as crystal.
In the ideal world, McLaren should stick to Honda, take the money they get and keep Alonso on a multi year deal on the condition that he keeps his potty mouth shut.
Hasegawa keeps mentioning the "contract" which means the contract is watertight and Mclaren won't be able to get out of it without paying huge amounts of money.Don't think there are any performance clause that Mclaren can exercise to terminate the deal and get money out of Honda, they would have done it already if there was any.
Best way to go, would be get Alonso a 1 year Indy deal with Andretti and get Button in, Button is a top professional. It would let Honda fix the motor over the year without getting crucified every day by the Spanish media and Alonso will get a sweet Indy title on his resume. Then bring back Alonso in 2019 for one last hurrah.
I really hope, whatever decision McLaren take, they take for their team and the fans. I see Renault as a massive side-step. If they release Honda, they're not just undermining themselves, they're also handing a direct rival in Red Bull a mighty sweet works deal.
I don't know how many of you are aware, but Red Bull have a veto on who Renault can supply. If they green light the McLaren supply, their intentions are clear as crystal.
In the ideal world, McLaren should stick to Honda, take the money they get and keep Alonso on a multi year deal on the condition that he keeps his potty mouth shut.
Hasegawa keeps mentioning the "contract" which means the contract is watertight and Mclaren won't be able to get out of it without paying huge amounts of money.Don't think there are any performance clause that Mclaren can exercise to terminate the deal and get money out of Honda, they would have done it already if there was any.
My understanding on these matters is a bit limited but how's this for a solution?
McLaren have the works deal. Red Bull have a junior team.
How about RBR agree to the Renault supply to McLaren.. they both let the Toro Rosso have the Honda PU till it becomes decent and then both have a works Honda PU. That way all and sundry can be happy and two TOP private teams can have a works deal? I seem to recall Jordan and BAR both being given same engines some time back in the 2000's..
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"
