2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Jolle]

plus, who wants McLaren to win races and become WC? Renault doesn't, they probably, when their own team is competitive going to drop RedBull. Mercedes doesn't and certainly doesn't. At this moment the only one is Honda.

[Jolle]

There is a silly thought possibility:

Renault signs a partnership with McLaren, takes shares in the company and they rebrand the Ricardo engines in the back of the McLaren sports cars as "Renault Sport", they sell Enstone.....

[diffuser]

Thanks Thunders. While I don't disagree that the shareholders of McLaren are very wealthy, I do have my doubts over if "podium finishes" will be any more of a probability with a Renault engine. We have 2 Mercedes engined cars and 2 Ferrari. Statistically, these cars will already occupy the top 4 spots as a result of a better engine. With a Renault engine, they will be in direct competition with RedBull, who, I'm sorry to say, just seems more capable. Even if we assume they could equal RedBull (which would be very impressive in my book), it still means they'd be fighting for position 5 to 8 more often than not.

Renault engine or not, there's no way I can see them battling for wins even under the most optimistic circumstances. And when that sets in AND they've dumped the millions by Honda, what then?

Forget the chassis. If we looked strictly at the PU. You'd have to say that the ODDs are about 5-15% higher that Renault VS Honda will be competitive. Just cause Renault already are.

Still Hope they stay with Honda...

[McL-H]

Slightly OT but who here still thinks a red bull Honda works deal is sweet and lucrative?

I absolutely think so. In fact, I believe Red Bull will not hesitate jumping to a Honda works deal if the possibility would be there. I'd not be surprised if it would be when Honda would finally hit the right spot. Honda's worse days are over. The only way now is forward.

Red Bull knows the Renault works team will get their stuff together soon, and they will get lessor equipment too.. They want works status. It's important in modern F1.

[JonoNic]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

[loner]

Brawn was hired by Honda a couple years before. He was running the Honda team. The whole year before Honda had no updates, At the time (Honda chassis/Brawn) was putting everything into the following year. When economic issues hit and Honda decided to leave F1. They left Brawn with whatever funding they had paid him and pulled PU. Brawn pleaded with Honda to no avail. He said they had a really good car/chassis and would be very close to the top. At that point he got the PU from Merc and rebranded the car Brawn.

In reality it was the Brawn Designed chassis with Honda funding that won that year.

this is doable with Williams Paddy lowe.

[loner]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

or what prevent Newey from intervene?!!

[diffuser]

To me it sounds like :
1- McLaren has decided they're going to try to get out of the contract with Honda.
2- Honda has agreed to let them out.
3- FIA has said "Renault, no you can't supply a 4th PU to McLaren and leave Honda out in the cold".
4- STR/Renault are holding all the cards and making Demands. One being Saintz to Renault.
5- I'm not sure what else.

[JonoNic]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

or what prevent Newy from intervene?!!

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. I still think that the Mclaren and TR chassis are more or less equal. Those two teams will just swap results.

[Phil]

Has anyone considered why Renault would want to supply McLaren?

From what I understand - it's not want, but out of necessity. The maximum number an engine manufacturer may supply are 3 teams. Mercedes (Mercedes, Force-India, Williams), Renault (Renault, RB, TR) and Ferrari (Ferrari, Sauber, Haas) each have 3. So there's no reason for any of the 3 engine manufacturers to supply McLaren.

If McLaren can get RedBull to want Honda engines for Torro-Rosso and McLaren end the partnership with Honda, they'd be left without an engine for 2018 and Renault with one less customer, forcing the FIA to step in and mandate Renault to supply McLaren with engines. This IMO relies on RedBull who might see a long term plan of ending up with Honda engines when they become competitive, using Torro-Rosso as a testing bed.

According to James Allen, a key figure in all of this might be Carlos Sainz, who could be released by Torro Rosso to race for Renault (I assume, to sweeten the deal and get out of the engine deal for TR for 2018).

I still can't quite see it happening, it's just too big of a carousel, one depending on another, and that on another again. And in all the reports I've been reading, it's McLaren speaking to Renault and RedBull, but I never quite see any reports of Honda taking part in those talks. This makes it seem to be quite one-sided and while it's one-sided, I wouldn't bet against Honda suing and taking legal steps against McLaren...

[loner]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

or what prevent Newy from intervene?!!

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. I still think that the Mclaren and TR chassis are more or less equal. Those two teams will just swap results.

lets say Redbull-Honda is the grand scheme for 2019 Newey sure will cooperate in TR chassis for the 2019 switch
won't that make TR chassis even better

[diffuser]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

It can only work if STR agree to a swap with McLaren the Renault PU for Honda PU. There are only 3 Renault PU allocations allowed. STR has 1. Forget everything else, it has come down to this.

[Jolle]

If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.

It can only work if STR agree to a swap with McLaren the Renault PU for Honda PU. There are only 3 Renault PU allocations allowed. STR has 1. Forget everything else, it has come down to this.

RedBull would agree in an instance. For them it's the best way to get an independent PU. STR would buy them time to let it mature (something McLaren should have done with Manor back in 2015). RedBull isn't Renaults priority, their own works team is. RedBull likes to be on number one, McLaren should have that same ambition.

[JonoNic]

or what prevent Newy from intervene?!!

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. I still think that the Mclaren and TR chassis are more or less equal. Those two teams will just swap results.

lets say Redbull-Honda is the grand scheme for 2019 Newey sure will cooperate in TR chassis for the 2019 switch
won't that make TR chassis even better

I see what you mean and agree with that

[Phil]

But if the engines at some point become equal (diminish returns), it will be down to the chassis and aero to once again prevail. It shouldn't matter then what engine is in the back. By the time RedBull might be convinced the Honda is there and competitive, there may no longer be a need to switch at all?

The future beyond 2020 is still being shaped. While Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault (probably) want a more engine orientated formula (because that is where their strengths lie to outperform the others), the rest, including RedBull, will have a say too.